LED Blinker relay question

[mindtrip]

Hey guys been working on my project for a while now and I am trying to figure
out my wiring cluster F.

I got some LED blinkers from china and they are two wire. So i connected the red lead to the light blue and black in the front and the neg wire to the double black and white stripe wire connection.

In the rear...same thing red to light blue and black. and blue to black and white stripe.

I purchased the relay as stated in Basscliffs turn signal relay replacement but its not working what so ever. EF34 was the model of the flasher relay


This shows the stock harness for blinker relay the ground and the fused power

Rear blinkers plugged in

front blinkers connected to the split wires black and light blue and the ground double connection.

Should i be getting a different relay?

 

[Crazy_Russian]

r u shore that those turn signals are not dual lead? one for running light and one for turn signal and the base as the ground?

 

[mindtrip]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-Motorcycle-LED-Turn-Signal-Indicators-Lights-BL-A1?item=260776514726&cmd=ViewItem&_trksid=p5197.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D4%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D7887773459080601906

 

[Guest]

The black with white stripped wire plugs into a ring terminal ground that bolts to the stalk of the turn signal. The orange and blue wire are running lights and turn signal, or a brighter turn signal if you want to hook both up to the green wire. You need a LED specific flasher or a load resister in line to get the stock flasher to work. The stock flasher needs to feel the load of stock bulbs to start flashing.

 

[mike_of_bbg]

The NAPA 552 flasher for $3 appears to be the electronic type.

 

[mighty13d]

I just got a Napa electronic two prong flasher for something like $2-3 just get one and forget about it. They have three prong ones also. Just bring in your original to compare.

 

[mindtrip]

Ok so I'll make up a couple of ring terminal ground wires for each blinker and ground the stalk to the double bullet connector.

 

[mindtrip]

It's such a confusing mess of wires in there. I've got the circuits narrowed down to light blue and black are hot lead and the black with white stripe is ground. So the stalk needs to be grounded to the black and white stripe bullet connector. I can make these led running lights and blink? Would I just take the two wires coming from the blinker and splice both into their respective blue or black hot lead?

 

[Normk]

Depending on your local motor vehicle lighting regulations, this may be an opportunity to improve the visibility of the bike as viewed from the front. In most jurisdictions it is not lawful to show an amber/yellow or white light to the rear, however it is acceptable to show from the front.

You may wish to consider wiring your front turn signals so that they are on with the ignition so that they act as running lights (always on park lights). These can be operated by either grounding to the rear or from a three pin flasher so that the flash "Off-On-Off" rather than "On-Off-On" as is typical of signal lights. In this mode the light indicating will flash while the other side will remain on continually.

The practice amongst cruisers of running a pair of lower output running/driving lights below and to the sides of the headlight greatly increases the visibility of an oncoming bike to other drivers. LED lighting panels are on order to replace the bulbs in the front signals of my GS850G in order to use this strategy.

If you are using conventional incandescent bulb rear signal lights, the wiring is very easy as it is simply a matter of connecting the positive lead for the LED to ignition switched power and connecting the negative/ground lead from the LED to the existing front signal "hot" or switched lead. In this case the LED will be powered by the ignition switched circuit and the low current from the LED will ground through the rear incandescent signal bulb. When the rear turn signal is powered there is no voltage difference across the LED so it turns off. In this mode the front signal remains on until the rear begins to flash, at which time the front flashes alternately to the rear.

If you intend to run LED on both front & rear, the wiring strategy is a bit different but not complicated. In this case, the easiest approach is to add about a 10 ohm, 20 Watt resistor in parallel with the rear signal light on each side.

If the approach appeals and the strategy is not evident, just shout.

 

[mindtrip]

I have all led turn signals add my stock ones were trashed last fall when I dumped my bike. I would love to have running lights up front mass law allows this. I will go this routejust still a bit confused on the wiring

 

[Killer2600]

Depending on your local motor vehicle lighting regulations, this may be an opportunity to improve the visibility of the bike as viewed from the front. In most jurisdictions it is not lawful to show an amber/yellow or white light to the rear, however it is acceptable to show from the front.

I guess suzuki got it wrong because my bike has amber turn signals on the rear, although a PO could have put them that way. It's not unlawful for rear turn signals to be amber, amber and red are both acceptable but the rear stop and park lights MUST be red in states.

Curious how you account for brightness with blinking running lights with either the running lights being dim turn signals or turn signals being bright running lights. There are regulations here on how bright turn signals and running lights, as well as other lights, can or have to be.

 

[Normk]

I seem to have mispoken as US & Canada allow amber/yellow turn signals to both front & rear but neither allow amber/yellow, or white lights to show to the rear. I intended to say that the existing amber/yellow turn signals could be turned into running lights but only for the front. Sorry for the poor clarity!

Brightness is a theoretical issue but not one which has been an issue in my experience, excepting in extreme degree. We used to measure the headlight, brake light...can't recall doing any other lights... as part of a vehicle inspection back in the Jurassic age but doubt that anyone has the means to measure light output as part of law enforcement these days.

It would be most interesting to learn if any areas have motor vehicle inspection or other testing which does measure light output levels or even checks for DOT approval of lighting.

My experience has been that enforcement generally applies the 11th commandment first- "don't get caught" - which has generally meant that only those who committed some indescretion were involved. As for lighting, avoiding the use of extra-ordinarily bright/dim, or wrong color is usually the answer. Even placement into the wrong height range, despite the affect on other drivers, seems to draw little attention.

I do wonder about the (always young people) who install HID into conventional incandescent headlight applications but choose colors outside the 4600 K range.... It simply screams, "Look my lights are illegal!!!!" Avoid that and no one seems bothered.

Another consideration is that the human eye is not efficient at estimating light intensity which makes it a very imperfect judge. People tend to believe that LED lights produce high light output (lumens/candlepower) because the very limited color frequency tends to overload the eye's receptors rather than because these lights are extra-ordinarily in output.

I have used quartz iodide bulbs in rear turn signals on ST1100 Honda and some others because these use a single filament bayonet socket bulb of the 1073 style. The output is about 2X that of the originals but drivers following find the brightness to be unremarkable although questioning specifically will cause them to notice that the lights do seem brighter than they expect. They are not bothered by the intensity however so voice no objection. I will install a pair of these:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/48-SMD-White...438?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab3eff916

into the rear enclosures of the GS850 as they fit without modifying the original light units. I do have to fabricate adapters by breaking the glass from bulbs to allow wires to be soldered into the bulb base for connection. The adapters provided do not fit the large bayonet bulb size. These have been useful for many other applications including made up 12 of the same for lighting in our motor home. Having one in hand, one of the "I wonder if it will fit" moments occurred when walking past the GS. Observation indicated that the light level might be....might...excessive to the rear but the proximity to the headlight made the effect quite acceptable for the front. Two will go in as stated in an earlier post so that the front lights will be on as running/park lights but flash as turn indicators. I will retain the rear bulbs in order to provide rear turns (only) which are able to act as ground circuit.

Called for dinner. Hope this is helpful..

I guess suzuki got it wrong because my bike has amber turn signals on the rear, although a PO could have put them that way. It's not unlawful for rear turn signals to be amber, amber and red are both acceptable but the rear stop and park lights MUST be red in states.

Curious how you account for brightness with blinking running lights with either the running lights being dim turn signals or turn signals being bright running lights. There are regulations here on how bright turn signals and running lights, as well as other lights, can or have to be.

 

[mindtrip]

Alright I got a response back from the Ebay seller and they said coming off the blinker the red is positive and the blue is negative. No stalk ground.

 

[Steve]

I got some LED blinkers from china and they are two wire. So i connected the red lead to the light blue and black in the front and the neg wire to the double black and white stripe wire connection.

Good connection, but thought you might like to know that the right turn signal wire is actually light GREEN, not blue.
Years of neglect in a not-to-friendly environment may have changed the color slightly, but it's green on the wiring diagram.

I just got a Napa electronic two prong flasher for something like $2-3 just get one and forget about it. They have three prong ones also. Just bring in your original to compare.

Won't matter much to the original poster and his 650, but if your bike has self-cancelling turn signals (and you wish to retain that feature), you will NOT find a three-prong flasher ANYWHERE at ANY store that will plug in and work.

I guess suzuki got it wrong because my bike has amber turn signals on the rear, although a PO could have put them that way.

No, Suzuki got it RIGHT.

Turn signals can (and, in my opinion, SHOULD) be amber/yellow. The laws that say "no yellow facing the rear" actually say "no steady-burning light shall face the rear of the vehicle". Flashing amber/yellow for turn signals or emergency flashers are allowed.

As for lighting, avoiding the use of extra-ordinarily bright/dim, or wrong color is usually the answer. Even placement into the wrong height range, despite the affect on other drivers, seems to draw little attention.

I have noticed this, too. In most of my cars, I use extra-bright bulbs, but keep them aimed properly. Nobody notices.
I have also run fog lights below the minimum height. Aimed and used properly, nobody notices.

I will install a pair of these:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/48-SMD-White-LED-Light-Panel-T10-Festoon-Ba9s-Dome-12V-/320846428438?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab3eff916

into the rear enclosures of the GS850 as they fit without modifying the original light units. I do have to fabricate adapters by breaking the glass from bulbs to allow wires to be soldered into the bulb base for connection.

Norm, I can't see your eBay link while at work, but by the description, they are white LEDs. Don't use them for tail/brake lights. Use RED LEDs, instead. The white LEDs actually have a lot of blue component in them, the red lens will filter that out and you will be left with not very much useable light. Using a red LED "bulb" works great.

Also, you don't have to break bulbs to make adapters.

You can get bulb bases from Superlumination (scroll down to the third item). If you don't want the hassle of ordering a couple of them, let me know. I have some here for a project I have been working on , I can send you a couple of them.

.

 

[mindtrip]

Steve thank you for all the info and support. I do not have self canceling turn signals on my bike. There is just a two wire signal relay box. My connections are good...should I remove my indicator light in the dash? Btw I figured the wire was green just discolored

 

[Steve]

My connections are good...should I remove my indicator light in the dash?

Do you have a single bulb or a bulb for each side?

If you have a bulb for each side, it will not be a problem.

However, if you have a single bulb (and want it to work), you will have to do some re-wiring.

.

 

[mindtrip]

I just have a single bulb in the dash. Someone said diodes. Never installed one before.

 

[Steve]

Your single bulb is a standard bulb, not a diode.

The problem with that bulb is that in normal operation (with your original turn signals), it is wired with one lead going to each side's signals, not to a "ground" point. When the left signals operate, current gets to the lead on the indicator bulb and looks for a 'ground' to turn on the light. The other lead is connected to the filaments in the right turn signals, the other sides of which are connected to 'ground'. The indicator bulb can not pass enough current to turn on the right side signals, so the filaments in the right side signals are simply wires to connect the indicator bulb to 'ground'. Same thing happens when you use the right signals, the left signal filaments are used as wires to connect the indicator bulb to 'ground'. This works because an incandescent bulb does not care which direction current goes through it.

With your LED signals, you don't need nearly as much current to activate them. The indicator bulb needs more current than the LED signals. When current hits one side of the indicator bulb, it goes through the filament, as before, looking for 'ground', but sees more LEDs. Since the LEDs don't take much current, they will light up, too. Yep, when you turn on the signals on one side, the other side will light up, too.

What is needed is an electrical check-valve, a diode. Using two of these facing opposite directions, with your indicator in the middle (and re-wired to connect the other lead to 'ground'), you will have no problems.

.Yeah, LED signals are a GREAT idea, aren't they?
Actually they are a great idea, just need a few more things to go along with them to make them work properly.

I have diagrams that might help you with this, but can not access Photobucket (and many other "important" sites) while at work.

.

 

[mindtrip]

Ok I've seen the wiring on basscliff s website. Gonna have to get into the cluster up front and see. Are the diodes all the same or do I need a specific set? I've seen so many articles about this online just no pictures. I'm a very visual person

 

[Steve]

Generic diodes at Radio Snack will work just fine. I think they are 1N4001.

.