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More modern cartridge fork options - retaining GS wheels & proper/revised geometry
- Thread starter Chuck78
- Start date
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Guest
Guest
interesting thought, especially as I'm pretty sure that they use a 43mm fork (Bandit and 1100K) ...... Hmmmmm
I recently bought a Yamaha R6 (RSU) fork to use on one of my GS 1000's.
The reason beeing that the stanchion's diameter at 43 mm is identical to the GSXR 1100's and on top their spacing is identical.
This means one can mount a complete R6 front end including wheel and brakes into GSXR triples.
Using the R6 triples would have a further advantage as it would somewhat reduce the trail.
The reason beeing that the stanchion's diameter at 43 mm is identical to the GSXR 1100's and on top their spacing is identical.
This means one can mount a complete R6 front end including wheel and brakes into GSXR triples.
Using the R6 triples would have a further advantage as it would somewhat reduce the trail.
The R6 triples have more offset? I have some 43mm GSXR1100K forks and the triples clearly are only good for a 17" front wheel, not nearly enough offset. Even at that, jacking up the rear shock height substantially to attempt to get the rake close to the GSXR's spec is definitely in order or else steering isn't really improved whatsoever.
The biggest point to the thread was to show forks of proper length and triples to work with them in order to have proper rake and trail while retaining a classic look.
Back to the DL1000 V STROM.... 110/80-19 front tire is an oddity! I only had tike to look up the first specs I came to. 2014+ ABS era models have 40mm inverted forks with ABS braking. 25 degrees rake 4.3" of trail.
They are an adventure bike, hence the odd sized larger front wheel in motocross styling (i.e. dirt bikes have 18/21 or 19/21 wheels generally as do dual sports).
If the ABS were easy to ditch, or if there were other fork lowers or forks in general non-ABS that could swap into those V STROM triples, that would be AWESOME! Jump down to an 18" spoked wheel & 98-99 CBR900RR rotors, or 1st Gen gixxer 2.75x18 mag wheel & matching rotors... this would be THE GO-TO Upside Down fork conversion for our bikes...
17" wheels would probably allow that v-Strom triple clamp set's offset to let you run stock ride height and still have a sporty trail figure in the 3.9" range....
I'd use partzilla to cross reference those fork uppers to see what other bikes they came on and see if any of them had non-ABS legs assuming the legs were different abs vs non.
The Strom weighs about as much as a GS650 or a little more, so the spring rates and valving should hopefully be right in the correct range.
The biggest point to the thread was to show forks of proper length and triples to work with them in order to have proper rake and trail while retaining a classic look.
Back to the DL1000 V STROM.... 110/80-19 front tire is an oddity! I only had tike to look up the first specs I came to. 2014+ ABS era models have 40mm inverted forks with ABS braking. 25 degrees rake 4.3" of trail.
They are an adventure bike, hence the odd sized larger front wheel in motocross styling (i.e. dirt bikes have 18/21 or 19/21 wheels generally as do dual sports).
If the ABS were easy to ditch, or if there were other fork lowers or forks in general non-ABS that could swap into those V STROM triples, that would be AWESOME! Jump down to an 18" spoked wheel & 98-99 CBR900RR rotors, or 1st Gen gixxer 2.75x18 mag wheel & matching rotors... this would be THE GO-TO Upside Down fork conversion for our bikes...
17" wheels would probably allow that v-Strom triple clamp set's offset to let you run stock ride height and still have a sporty trail figure in the 3.9" range....
I'd use partzilla to cross reference those fork uppers to see what other bikes they came on and see if any of them had non-ABS legs assuming the legs were different abs vs non.
The Strom weighs about as much as a GS650 or a little more, so the spring rates and valving should hopefully be right in the correct range.
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Aaaahhhhhh!!!!! That VSTROM triple looks to use the same gsxr/Hayabusa aluminum stem that I have here for a few projects! Good fit height wise on GS frames, 30mm upper and lower bearing i.d. - very nice piece! This was an '05 I was just looking at. I'll have to look one up to see if non-ABS (2002-2012/13) are conventional or USD like the later ABS models!
EDIT - Although the stem looks identical, I believe it to be about a 1/4" to 7/16" longer in the bearing to bearing height, but still could likely be used by putting 1/4" or 7/16" spacer under the lower bearing, or swapping stems to the GSXR/Busa alloy stem.
I'll have to buy one of these in the name of science... This could work really well with 17" &18" front wheels
EDIT - Although the stem looks identical, I believe it to be about a 1/4" to 7/16" longer in the bearing to bearing height, but still could likely be used by putting 1/4" or 7/16" spacer under the lower bearing, or swapping stems to the GSXR/Busa alloy stem.
I'll have to buy one of these in the name of science... This could work really well with 17" &18" front wheels
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The non-ABS V-STROM DOES USE 43mm CONVENTIONAL FORKS! Very nice! This looks to be a BOLT-ON triple for a GS!!! With proper bearing swap, that is!
Other awesome news is what I suspected just looking at the fork brake caliper mounts - it uses the same calipers as GS500's etc, single sided 2 piston calipers same as our beloved twinpot brake upgrade!
So really this whole fork aside from some GS axle adapters needing to be machined is nearly a bolt on!
You would not want to use that big wide 110/80-19 wheel though unless you jacked up the rear A LOT and dropped the front end a bit, it would steer too slow as the strom has a 25 degree rake and ours are 27 degrees mostly, a few 28 degrees. but an 18" wire spoke wheel and cbr900rr 310mm rotors would be a KILLER swap...
I might have to pick up a set of these triples to check out the width. I don't know if it would be enough to run opposed piston calipers that the Bandit runs, but it would be interesting to find out. I love the look of the Bandit forks, as they look just like GS forks but are 43mm with EXCELLENT cartridge damping stock...
I was looking into a potential upgrade on the GS750 this year... the superhawk vt1000f forks I have in Honda PC800 triples would work excellent even with opposed piston calipers, but the look is far from the classic GS style. GS forks just plain look good.
My 35mm GS750 dual discs may then get swapped onto a 740cc GS550/650 project with their dual 296mm twinpot brakes, Tarozzi fork brace, emulators, etc...
This is awesome news! Thanks for discover the V-Strom front end for us!
If those triples work out well but aren't wide enough to allow opposed piston bandit etc calipers, one could always use the trusty twinpot brakes and an adapter plate to run them on Bandit forks same as the GS!
By the way it looks to me that the triples are around 42-43mm offset. I'd hope for a slight bit more than that, but this is a really good start for something that is likely a bolt-on and can run Bandit forks! If the rake and trail isn't great, one could also run RF900R forks which has are shorter versions of the bandits, 2 years of their 4 or 5 year run also had external damping adjustment, something I wish the Bandit forks had...
Other awesome news is what I suspected just looking at the fork brake caliper mounts - it uses the same calipers as GS500's etc, single sided 2 piston calipers same as our beloved twinpot brake upgrade!
So really this whole fork aside from some GS axle adapters needing to be machined is nearly a bolt on!
You would not want to use that big wide 110/80-19 wheel though unless you jacked up the rear A LOT and dropped the front end a bit, it would steer too slow as the strom has a 25 degree rake and ours are 27 degrees mostly, a few 28 degrees. but an 18" wire spoke wheel and cbr900rr 310mm rotors would be a KILLER swap...
I might have to pick up a set of these triples to check out the width. I don't know if it would be enough to run opposed piston calipers that the Bandit runs, but it would be interesting to find out. I love the look of the Bandit forks, as they look just like GS forks but are 43mm with EXCELLENT cartridge damping stock...
I was looking into a potential upgrade on the GS750 this year... the superhawk vt1000f forks I have in Honda PC800 triples would work excellent even with opposed piston calipers, but the look is far from the classic GS style. GS forks just plain look good.
My 35mm GS750 dual discs may then get swapped onto a 740cc GS550/650 project with their dual 296mm twinpot brakes, Tarozzi fork brace, emulators, etc...
This is awesome news! Thanks for discover the V-Strom front end for us!
If those triples work out well but aren't wide enough to allow opposed piston bandit etc calipers, one could always use the trusty twinpot brakes and an adapter plate to run them on Bandit forks same as the GS!
By the way it looks to me that the triples are around 42-43mm offset. I'd hope for a slight bit more than that, but this is a really good start for something that is likely a bolt-on and can run Bandit forks! If the rake and trail isn't great, one could also run RF900R forks which has are shorter versions of the bandits, 2 years of their 4 or 5 year run also had external damping adjustment, something I wish the Bandit forks had...
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I've always suspected that the Strom forks would work. I just wanted somebody smarter than me to confirm it!
I have a 2005 Vstrom 1000. It's a great bike and handles very well. There are options to lower the front end for short folks (it is a tall bike). I figured I would drop the front a little and raise the rear (of the gs) to get the rake more "sporty". This is a great find for me. I always wanted modern suspension and tire selection, but I've always thought that a 17" wheel on a GS looks weird.
I have a 2005 Vstrom 1000. It's a great bike and handles very well. There are options to lower the front end for short folks (it is a tall bike). I figured I would drop the front a little and raise the rear (of the gs) to get the rake more "sporty". This is a great find for me. I always wanted modern suspension and tire selection, but I've always thought that a 17" wheel on a GS looks weird.
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Based on "advertised" rake and trail specs of the vstrom, & the advertised diameter of a shinko 705 110/80-19 dual sport tire, the triple clamp offset on that vstrom fork is 40.9mm. Still a bit shy of what we want, ours are around 55mm for a 19" tire and 27 degrees rake, whereas modern sportbikes use a short profile 17" tire and 25 degree rake and have a 30-35mm triple clamp offset.
So for a GS, with an 18" front wheel and some taller shocks, one should easily be able to attain a trail improvement over the stock roughly 4.2" trail spec of our GS's and gain Bandit or V-Strom cartridge forks...
these triples seem plentiful on ebay and can be had for $70, whereas the VMAX triples that are the only comparison are 50mm offset and possibly slightly wider, can possibly have the lower bearing shimmed up a good bit to work but would otherwise require a gsxr/Hayabusa aluminum stem swap to make work, & they are scarce on ebay buy usually cost $100... most crashed salvaged vmx12's have a steering stop busted off and can be had slightly cheaper that way if you don't want to have one central steering stop on the front middle of your frame. But then youre buying a triple that had been on a laid down bike. They are all aluminum though so maybe less likely you bend than steel. Very nice looking pieces. Stem swap requires some machining of the stem in a lathe.
So for a GS, with an 18" front wheel and some taller shocks, one should easily be able to attain a trail improvement over the stock roughly 4.2" trail spec of our GS's and gain Bandit or V-Strom cartridge forks...
these triples seem plentiful on ebay and can be had for $70, whereas the VMAX triples that are the only comparison are 50mm offset and possibly slightly wider, can possibly have the lower bearing shimmed up a good bit to work but would otherwise require a gsxr/Hayabusa aluminum stem swap to make work, & they are scarce on ebay buy usually cost $100... most crashed salvaged vmx12's have a steering stop busted off and can be had slightly cheaper that way if you don't want to have one central steering stop on the front middle of your frame. But then youre buying a triple that had been on a laid down bike. They are all aluminum though so maybe less likely you bend than steel. Very nice looking pieces. Stem swap requires some machining of the stem in a lathe.
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2002 DL 1000 V-Strom rake and trail is listed as 26.5 degrees and 4.6" trail, much different from that mid period spec 25 degrees and 4.3".
Bridgestone Battle wing tires are stock and slightly larger than the Shinko 705 I inputted at 662mm or a bit over 26".
Reverse engineering this spec gives a 1.7" or 43.18mm triple clamp offset. More use able to get our GS's some sporty steering with awesome forks.
Does anyone have a set of these Vstrom forks to measure? HiSPL? What is the total height from center of axle to top of chrome stanchion tube at top of upper triple, not including fork cap?
As I said, it uses the same caliper mount tab style as our twin pot brake mod, which is the early GS500 calipers, & uses the same calipers as the mid/later GS500. These are all single sided sliding 2 piston calipers, excellent for clearance to wire spoke wheels! The other style modern opposed piston calipers are always questionable whether they will hit the spokes unless the triples are 215mm wide cruiser width or so...
Bridgestone Battle wing tires are stock and slightly larger than the Shinko 705 I inputted at 662mm or a bit over 26".
Reverse engineering this spec gives a 1.7" or 43.18mm triple clamp offset. More use able to get our GS's some sporty steering with awesome forks.
Does anyone have a set of these Vstrom forks to measure? HiSPL? What is the total height from center of axle to top of chrome stanchion tube at top of upper triple, not including fork cap?
As I said, it uses the same caliper mount tab style as our twin pot brake mod, which is the early GS500 calipers, & uses the same calipers as the mid/later GS500. These are all single sided sliding 2 piston calipers, excellent for clearance to wire spoke wheels! The other style modern opposed piston calipers are always questionable whether they will hit the spokes unless the triples are 215mm wide cruiser width or so...
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That triple at 43mm or so offset would work decent on a GS wheelset with a 2.15x18 or 2.50x18 front rim laced in with a 100/80-18 or 110/80-18 tire and 345mm or so rear shocks, to give a GS a good sporty feel while still being quite stable. a 100/90-18 would work well also but slightly slower steering, tallest of those three sizes.
I'll get this, but my Strom is in storage right now. I'll have to get over there and move a bunch of stuff out of the way.
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Gs1100newb
Guest
Would a 06 zx6 front end work on a gs1100? I know theres a weight difference but I have a guy selling a complete front end for a really good price near me. Also someone is selling a 2009 r6 complete front end near me as well.
Will it "work" is very relative. Will it roll down the road after much work swapping? Yes. Will it have much better braking than stock? Definitely. Will it handle better than stock? If you never care to turn or lean, & prefer your bike to corner like a Harley and have poor lean angle and very minimal ground clearance - worse than a Harley...
They are both likely to be WAAAYYYY too short, and on top of that you lose 1" to 1-1/4" ride height jumping down from a high profile 19" tire to a wider lower profile 17" tire. On top of all of that, the triples are completely the wrong offset, as they are designed for a frame with a 24 degree head tube & will generate so much trail that the steering will compare to that of an old man Harley cruiser, & our bikes generally have a 27 degree head tube. You'd have to add 2"+ longer rear shocks on your bike and keep the front end slammed to the point if having no sporty cornering clearance (& bashing your 4-1 exhaust on small bumps and approaches) in order to get it to steer correctly.
You need a fork that fits into a triple clamp with minimum 40-44mm offset for 17" wheel or 46-55mm offset for 18/19" front wheel... the only one close to that (I assume you are looking at US forks) which I discovered due to a recent post would be the late model 2013 to 2015 or do V Strom 1000 upside down forks with ABS brakes...
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willycrash
Guest
I just bought a GS 750 E dual disc front end for my standard '77 GS 750 and then started in on this thread...arggg! One has to wonder if it would be possible to insert the guts and tubes of a smaller modern cartridge fork into the stock GS 750 stanchions for a stock look? i've heard of this being done with SV650 damper rod forks. One would guess the donor bike would be some gray market type small bore racer replica. or maybe I'm high. Comments?
Maxton.co.uk I believe are the ones that make cartridge retrofit kits for damper rod forks. I doubt you'll find a junkyard fork with guts that can swap into a 35mm 1979 fork.
Cartridge emulators and proper spec aftermarket springs will do wonders however, much easoer. And a Tarozzi fork brace. And the popular twinpot brake mod. All bolt on no real mods needed.
Cartridge emulators and proper spec aftermarket springs will do wonders however, much easoer. And a Tarozzi fork brace. And the popular twinpot brake mod. All bolt on no real mods needed.
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Guest
Guest
I have an acquaintance who retrofits cartridges into damper rod forks as a hobby business. It costs more than a set of springs and emulators, but also performs better. I believe that he uses cartridges from one of the later CBR600 models, but I'm not certain of that. Last I talked to him about it he was charging $400 to do a set of forks and that included the cartridges, new Sonic springs in your rate of choice and fork oil if you lived in the US.
Mark
So your friend is in the US, not Canada? Does he have a website of any sort? Are you free to drop his contact info for others who would like this service?
I was always wondering about retrofitting 37mm GS1000 Forks or GS1100GK 41mm forks. Or possibly GS500E forks to stay under the 38mm class limit for WERA's Formula 500 road race class.
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