My turn in charging system hell

[doctorgonzo]

Ok, I installed a new electrosport stator, I didn't replace the R/R unit yet because the one I ordered hasn't arrived. The old one tests good as far as current in only one direction, but that only tells you so much, so I didn't want to take a chance. Here is the problem. All three stator wires read 65V (my manual specifies 80V) at 5000 rpm, which seems a bit low, but is within spec (by Stator papers). However, I get no resistance between the three legs. Stator papers fault guide says .5 to 2 ohms resistance or the stator is bad. I'm still not charging, but hopefully the R/R unit will get her tomorrow or the next day. Is it no doubt that new stator is bad because of the resistance readings, or with 65V coming from the stator on all three legs is it likely either R/R unit or a bad connection.

 

[BassCliff]

Hi Mr. doctorgonzo,

Absolutely no resistance between the legs? What kind of meter are you using? Perhaps it's not calibrated correctly or it's not sensitive enough? Can you set the ohms reading to a higher sensitivity (lower range)? Or does your meter auto-sense? The readings must be taken with the stator completely disconnected from the r/r. Keep us informed.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[doctorgonzo]

It's a $19.95 auto parts store special MM, so it might need to be calibrated. I'll try and borrow a better one and test again when I go back to the garage to install the new R/R unit. To your other question, yes, no resistance, all three legs peg the needle just like I had touched the two probes together on the 1k ohms setting. I REALLY hope I did get a defective stator, both for the pain of pulling and installing a new one, and the wait to get another one in. I'm ready for some miles on those new tires.

 

[bakalorz]

It's a $19.95 auto parts store special MM, so it might need to be calibrated. I'll try and borrow a better one and test again when I go back to the garage to install the new R/R unit. To your other question, yes, no resistance, all three legs peg the needle just like I had touched the two probes together on the 1k ohms setting. I REALLY hope I did get a defective stator, both for the pain of pulling and installing a new one, and the wait to get another one in. I'm ready for some miles on those new tires.

You need a REALLY good meter to get any kind of accuracy below 10 ohms ...

With an analog thats not very expensive you probably can't even really try to measure it.
With a cheap digital you might get closer ... touch the probes together, and it will probably not say zero ... use that value as your compensation ... measure the legs, and subtract the compensation value from your measurement.

You could also try games like using a voltage source (like the 12 volt battery) and a current limiting resistor to send a constant current through the legs, and then measure the current and voltage across the legs, and then use V=IR to calculate the resistance of the stator.

but all in all, if the stator puts out acceptable voltage, I'd just consider it good unless something else indicates otherwise ...

 

[doctorgonzo]

Problem fixed. It was the R/R unit. I coughed up the 50 bucks for a decent ranging MM and the resistance on the stator wires was in spec, about .3 to .5 ohms. My CBR R/R came in today and after I installed it started getting 13.5V at the battery at 3000 RPM. I got a scare because initially the starter wouldn't turn over. Some testing discovered my entire battery box was hot!?!?! 12.5 volts. I pulled the fuse box from the battery box and initially it was still hot, but then it stopped. I'm not sure if the fuse box was shorting against the box or not, but where ever the short was it resolved and the bike fired up. I guess I'm going to have to go back over everything with a fine tooth comb and make sure I don't see an obvious short against the battery box. Replacing the crappy old fuse box with an auto one just got moved to the top of the agenda.

 

[Steve]

Two things should be learned from this, if nothing else...

1) aren't you glad the battery box is rubber isolated? \\/

2) why would the factory ground the regulator to that rubber-isolated battery box? :-k

This is exactly why you want to run a dedicated ground wire from your r/r to the battery. 8-[

.

 

[doctorgonzo]

Un.. freaking.. believeable

Un.. freaking.. believeable

Ok, came out of work today, after noticing the bike didn't run well at lunch, and the battery is dead. I pulled the R/R unit and the battery and got a ride home. The R/R unit is testing bad per the stator papers and my manual. This is a late model CBR unit... DAMN IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm going to test the Stator tomorrow and pray it's still good. I had a good charging system for a grand total of 10 days. If the stator tests good (oh please, oh please) I'm going to a Honda dealership and cough up the money for a NEW CBR R/R unit and hope this ones lasts more than a week (yes, the ground was run straight to the battery). I am also replacing the fuse block with spade fuses, I pulled the fuse block as well. There almost has to be another problem underlying this. Two R/R units in 2 weeks would be crazy bad luck.

 

[twistedwankel]

... but where ever the short was it resolved and the bike fired up.

These things never end well until we find the actual problem. Fuel and Fire are the two gremlins of any old machine because it had years to perfect the defect with the help of lots of PO's.

That dead short is starting to cost you money now. So apparently it is on an unfused positive wire. Perhaps the one going directly to the starter itself?

Look for non factory wires (solid red,yellow,black,brown) from some long gone add on or repair by a PO. My bike once had a Vetter CB radio and the PO left the wires in hot. It was unfused all the way to the front of the bike where there was an inline one...well that left 3ft of potential dead short...but I found it before any walking issue was caused and removed them.

Good luck learning to use your good VOM - time well spent.

 

[doctorgonzo]

Ordered the R/R unit from electrosport at about 2:00 AM last night after testing my old one for about the 10th time (paid for the 2nd day air, so hopefully here before the weekend). The bike actually has a new wiring harness, so most of the wiring is good. One of the few parts still original (or PO installed at least) was the fuse block. It's getting replaced after work (I wired up the new ATC one last night). The wires from the old block to the harness was a horror show. also, (and WHY didn't I check this... idiot!!!!) every one of my fuses was too many amps. My manual says 15 for the main, and 10 for all the rest. I had 30 in the main (from the PO) and 20 in the rest. Major checking for shorts in any wires not part of that new harness forthcoming as well. If it's just the R/R unit (oh please, oh please) gonna leave it in the parking lot at work and fix it there. If I toasted the stator then I guess it gets hauled home.

 

[doctorgonzo]

Couple more things..

1. I just ordered this http://www.digitalmeter.com/cgi-bin/webshop.cgi?config=configspc.txt (was on the list, but not gonna wait any longer)
Now I'll know there is a problem BEFORE I'm stranded.

2. I have seen people post about splitting the red wire that goes to the harness from the R/R unit and putting an additional line straight to the positive of the battery (I'd do fused). Opinions on this.... seems like this would help a potential bottleneck in the system from frying the R/R unit as it would still have a good path to the battery. Thoughts?

 

[bakalorz]

<snip>
I have seen people post about splitting the red wire that goes to the harness from the R/R unit and putting an additional line straight to the positive of the battery (I'd do fused). Opinions on this.... seems like this would help a potential bottleneck in the system from frying the R/R unit as it would still have a good path to the battery. Thoughts?

I'm not a particular fan of this.
You do get a lower resistance path to the battery. But if you felt you needed that, you could do that by replacing the wire in that part of the harness with heavier guage wire.

The original wire going into the harness goes to the main fuse in the fuse box and then goes pretty much directly to the battery after that. So if you made sure that all the connections in the fusebox and any connectors on the positive line are clean and tight, there isn't much point to paralleling it.

My main issue with it is that it puts that new fuse in parallel with the bikes main fuse. Depending on a bunch of stuff, the effective fusing could be anywhere between the smaller of those two fuses, or the sum of both of them.

I believe the people who have done it generally had R/Rs that had 2 identical hot wires and 2 identical ground wires, making it attractive and easy to make that modification.
These R/Rs came from bikes with higher output charging systems, and the OEM of those bikes wanted to use a heavier guage wire for these connections.
(kind of like in my first para)
Rather than use a single wire that would be bigger than all the rest of the wires in that bikes harness, they used 2 in parallel, thus simplifying the types of wire in the harness.
But they would probably both go to the same main fuse on the OEMs bike.

 

[doctorgonzo]

Ok, good news, I guess. I THINK the stator is still good. I wired in the new fuse block, put in a fully charged battery and fired it up. The three stator wires all read 40V at 5000 RPM. That is low (I'm about to review the stator papers once again), but, it's not REALLY low, and the three are consistent. Resistance between the wires is .5 ohms. At higher RPM the voltage increases, all the way up to close to 80V at 7000 RPM. What do you guys think? The stator still "good" at least good enough to run with it for a while? I can't REALLY test the charging until my new R/R unit gets here that I ordered from Electrosport.

 

[doctorgonzo]

New R/R unit (electrosport, didn't want to wait for one off ebay, got the electrsport here in 2 days) resolved the problem. My max charge is only 13.9 at 5000 RPM which has me a bit concerned, but on the road again. I went from 14 gauge to 12 gauge on the hot wire from the R/R unit all the way to the battery, hopefully this will help with resistance issues. Just as the last time R/R went bad the connector where the R/R unit went into the harness was black and obviously overheated.