Need Charging System Help

[Guest]

Just do a total electrical system check up. I started with my ground connections, 3 grounds, battery to the engine case, RR to the frame or engine case, and RR to the battery. Check and clean all your electrical connections . Check your fuse panel as well, I found mine had corroded inside causing some of the problems I had. Check and clean the ground wire from the fuse box as well while you are working on your system. Repair any connection that looks questionable. I've done what some suggest to do, if you have burnt connections, change them over from the bullet types to the spade connectors. Did that with my new RR and stator.

 

[Redman]

.....
I'll go ahead and buy the new stator .....

Greg,

You say it does charge when bike is cold.
Maybe can run it till the charging falters, and then check the stator no load voltage and the ohm readings again. And compare to when cold. If appreciable changes, then can have better confidence in getting the new stator.

Dave

.

 

[gbw]

Greg,

You say it does charge when bike is cold.
Maybe can run it till the charging falters, and then check the stator no load voltage and the ohm readings again. And compare to when cold. If appreciable changes, then can have better confidence in getting the new stator.

Dave

.

I'm going to do that today. I'll report back.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions guys!

 

[Redman]

Greg...?

Anything to report on this?

 

[gbw]

Greg...?

Anything to report on this?

Thanks for checking. No, nothing new. Been busy with family and other projects. Hope to get back to the GS a little this weekend.

 

[Redman]

Thanks for checking. No, nothing new. Been busy with family and other projects. Hope to get back to the GS a little this weekend.

How about family time in the garage ha har har
Say to father-in-law "You can join me in the fun in the garage. Here is a five gallon bucket on this side of the bike, and one on other side. You can sit on which ever one I am not sitting on. Look, these are the stator wires, and these are the R/R wires." ha ha har har

.

 

[govburns]

GBW,

I'm interested to see what you find out. I have a 79 GS850 with basically the same set up as you and everything checks out according to the stator papers, but it's still not charging properly.

I've been thinking that maybe the older 12 pole stators don't work well with the Honda RR's (SH232, 532, etc).

Does anyone have a 12 pole stator and a Honda RR that is functioning properly?

Perhaps duaneage knows?

 

[govburns]

Just found this so I guess that answers my question.

I have put 5k on my 79 850 with a Honda r/r with no problems to my oem 79 850 12 pole stator I got from rustybronco.

I check the vac and vdc periodically and all outputs are with limits(14.2v at 5k rpm's).

I also run a volt meter from showchrome and the output has not changed, knock on wood.

 

[JayWB]

It's not difficult or expensive to build a "dummy" load to test a stator and prove it good or bad once and for all. Just use light bulbs.

Get 3 standard house light bulb sockets and wire them in a triangle (that's "Delta" for you electrical types). Wire all 3 of them positive to negative such that when you're finished you literally have a triangle of light sockets. Connect one wire from your stator to each of the 3 "corners" and put 60 or 75 watt light bulbs in the sockets (make all 3 of them the same wattage).

Start the engine and you should see each lamp light pretty much the same. Measure your stator voltage 3 times from stator wire to stator wire, wire A to B, wire A to C and wire B to C.

 

[govburns]

Nice idea. I'm going to do this.

It's not difficult or expensive to build a "dummy" load to test a stator and prove it good or bad once and for all. Just use light bulbs.

Get 3 standard house light bulb sockets and wire them in a triangle (that's "Delta" for you electrical types). Wire all 3 of them positive to negative such that when you're finished you literally have a triangle of light sockets. Connect one wire from your stator to each of the 3 "corners" and put 60 or 75 watt light bulbs in the sockets (make all 3 of them the same wattage).

Start the engine and you should see each lamp light pretty much the same. Measure your stator voltage 3 times from stator wire to stator wire, wire A to B, wire A to C and wire B to C.

 

[gbw]

So it seems that my unloaded AC stator output does not change as the bike goes from being cold up to operating temp. It stays constant at 50V at 3k rpm and 80V at 5k rpm.

However, and I'm going to confirm this again after the bike cools off, I'm pretty sure it charges properly when cold and not so well when its warmed up.

If that is true could that still be the stator or could it be something else? I'm confident the R/R is good. It is a Duanage Honda R/R.

I'm temped to just buy the new stator Redman found but I hate throwing good money after bad without knowing if it will sure fix the problem.

I also might try JWB's light bulb test. Maybe the AC output results will be different under load when hot vs. cold.

 

[Redman]

So it seems that my unloaded AC stator output does not change as the bike goes from being cold up to operating temp. It stays constant at 50V at 3k rpm and 80V at 5k rpm.

However, and I'm going to confirm this again after the bike cools off, I'm pretty sure it charges properly when cold and not so well when its warmed up.

If that is true could that still be the stator or could it be something else?
....
.....
.....

Yes, beacuse the "unloaded AC stator output test" is, ah, unloaded. THings could be different when stator is loaded and current flowing which can heat up the stator even more.

And doing it the way you did, you just knew the engine was warm, you did not really know the charging was faultering.

Maybe, next time, connect everything up, run it till it gets warm and can tell the charging is faultering. Then disconnect and do the stator test while it is still warm.

.

 

[duaneage]

GBW,

I'm interested to see what you find out. I have a 79 GS850 with basically the same set up as you and everything checks out according to the stator papers, but it's still not charging properly.

I've been thinking that maybe the older 12 pole stators don't work well with the Honda RR's (SH232, 532, etc).

Does anyone have a 12 pole stator and a Honda RR that is functioning properly?

Perhaps duaneage knows?

They work perfectly with every GS stator there is, I've sold them to every model GS from '77 to '86

 

[gbw]

I just placed an order for the Electorsport stator that Redman found.

Maybe it will solve my charging problem. But even if it doesn't, at least I won't be riding around with a 35 year old stator of questionable integrity.

Plus, they have a one-year no questions asked warranty. So I could it return it but I doubt I will.

 

[gbw]

My new stator arrived today. Unfortunately, my clutch started slipping so bad yesterday it would no longer propel the bike.

So now my priorities have changed. I hope to open up the clutch today and find out what is going on. I'm sure I'll have to order parts. While I'm waiting for the parts I'll install the new stator.

Once I get everything buttoned up again I'll be able to test if the new stator works.

Dang clutch! If its not one thing its another.

 

[Redman]

My new stator arrived today. Unfortunately, my clutch started slipping so bad yesterday it would no longer propel the bike.
..
..

Well, you can go some distance without a charging system. But not much with clutch slipping that bad.

Man, now working on both sides of engine at same time.

If you read manual about clutch plates, it reads like the thickness of the friction plates are the critical factor. But, now, 30 years later, the hardness (and resulting lack of friction) is the more critical thing. Also the spring tension. The thickness can be in spec, and be so hard and brittle that will slipp. But, hey, this is the electrical forumn.


.

 

[gbw]

Well, you can go some distance without a charging system. But not much with clutch slipping that bad.

Man, now working on both sides of engine at same time.

If you read manual about clutch plates, it reads like the thickness of the friction plates are the critical factor. But, now, 30 years later, the hardness (and resulting lack of friction) is the more critical thing. Also the spring tension. The thickness can be in spec, and be so hard and brittle that will slipp. But, hey, this is the electrical forumn.


.

Well, the new stator is in and the clutch plates are installed. However, I'm reluctant to start the bike until I get the front end installed. Should have that complete by the end of the weekend.

This weekend being my wife's birthday and Mother's Day is slowing me down a little.

Can't wait to get it started and see if I have a working charging system.

 

[gbw]

Well...no love. Even with the new stator the bike only puts out about 13VDC at 5k rpm. So, new stator, new Duanage R/R (well, its a few years old now), and still not charging properly. Guess I'll start looking at the wiring again, but I've been through it pretty thoroughly in the past. Guess I missed something.

 

[tom203]

So sense wire hooked to brakelight switch ? - R/R positive output into harness or direct via inline fuse to battery positive? make sure R/R ground wire (green?) has good connection to battery negative.
This 13 volts at 5k- is this measured at battery?

 

[Redman]

Well...no love. Even with the new stator the bike only puts out about 13VDC at 5k rpm. So, new stator, new Duanage R/R (well, its a few years old now), and still not charging properly. Guess I'll start looking at the wiring again, but I've been through it pretty thoroughly in the past. Guess I missed something.

13vdc is marginal or low. Will not fully charge battery. You may get by, but not very well. High 13s much better. Low 14s better yet (but watch fluid level if fluid type battery).

Also measure the voltage the R/R is putting out, from the very same place where the R/R is putting it out : From The R/R output to the R/R negitive. If this is not the same as what you are measuring acrost the battery, then there is a problem in connections between the R/R and the battery. And there are steps in the stator papares to check this, check for voltage between the battery+ and the R/R output, should be about zero, if not than bad connection. Check for voltage between the battery- and R/R negitive, should be about zero, if not then bad connection, maybe where battery box grounded by the black/white wire or the black/white wire is not really a good groound.

Tell us more what you find.

Tell us about the scense line. Where is that connected? If it is a Dunnage R/R, it came with connectors to connect into the rear brake power line, which is a good place because it is somewaht close to battery but yet gets powered down when bike is off. If it is there I can not see any problem there causing you Low battery voltage. (although a problem there can cause High battery voltage).

If scense line is connected directly to the R/R output (which are reasons not too and should not) and if there is some bad connection between R/R output and the battery+, then you will get Low voltage at battery.

As a test; disconenct the scense line. That will make the R/R think voltage is real low, and then R/R crank out as much as it can, like maybe 16. This is just a quick test to prove that the stator can put out the power. Only do it for a portin of a minute.

Front end. MAn. Knew about the charging problem,... and the clutch plates ... and now front end, what is that about? New tire? (did I miss something?)

Dave