Need suspension help for a 78 750, rear shock suggestions

[one_civic]

Hey guys, so I replaced my front saggy springs with sonic 1.0kg/mm last year and am now looking for some input on affordable aftermarket rear shocks.

I'm 6 ft 220 lbs and have no idea what to get and availability in Canada. I've heard of hagon and everyone here seems to like them but where can I get them in Ontario, Canada? Are there any other options?

I've been offered a used set of koni's and a set of fox shocks off an 81 gs1100e for $150 a pair but the owner has no information about them, i.e. spring rates, progressive or straight rate or if parts are still available.....etc. etc. etc They don't look like their in pretty good shape either.

Would I be better off spending a little more money on newer shocks? And which ones?

What spring rate and shock should I get for my bike?

Cheers

 

[one_civic]

Someone please help! I know this has asked many times and I have used the search function, I just want to know if their are any other affordable options for our bikes?

 

[allojohn]

I put these on front and back and haven't looked back. Some think they're a bit pricey, but worth every penny IMO.

 

[one_civic]

I already have sonic straight rate springs on my front forks so progressives are not going to work out.

 

[Guest]

Any new shocks you get you will have to order from the US and have them shipped. The great thing about Koni's are that they are rebuildable and you can still get parts for them. The Hagons are a great shock, I ran a set with progressives up front. Talk with CharlieG here on the site he just bought a set of 2810's for his 1100G. Hagons are the next step up from Progressive shocks, at least I feel they are. If you are buying new any reputable company will talk with you about what bike the shocks are going on, how you ride, what your weight is, if you double up, etc...and find the best shock set up for you. Some companies even allow one spring exchange at no charge. The thing to look at with those older shocks are the chrome shafts, if there's a bunch of rust on them they are probably toast, grab em and see what they feel like when you compress them, are they showing signs of the seals being blown out, etc...etc... Oh, and there's no rule about having straight springs up front and Progressive shocks in the back.

 

[Nessism]

First of all, if you can get a set of Fox shocks for $150 you should grab them (assuming the shafts aren't damaged). There are guys out there that can rebuild them if needed. Fox shocks are worth a fair chunk of change, so you can sell them again and most likely make a profit if you don't like them for some reason.

Progressive shocks are tried and true. The common Chinese made Emgo shocks are reputed to be decent, but stiffly sprung. At 220 lbs these may be a good choice though. The rubber grommets are reputed to be junk though so you may have to replace them at some point in the future (basscliff has a tutorial). YSS are a cut above these others but more expensive. Not sure about availability in Canada and not sure about pricing there either. They are worth investigating though if your bike is a long term keeper.

 

[Steve]

The common Chinese made Emgo shocks are reputed to be decent, but stiffly sprung.
At 220 lbs these may be a good choice though.

They will only be a 'decent' choice if most of his riding will be 2-up. :-k

We have a set of those on my son's 1000G. When I am on the bike, I find it brutally harsh, and I am about 230 lbs. My son is about 290 and finds them 'acceptable', but he's still young. He has said that when he has a passenger, they feel pretty good.

My wife's bike has Progressive fork springs and Hagon shocks.

My bike has Sonic fork springs (1.1 :encouragement and Koni shocks. I forget what the numbers are, but they are the stock springs.

The last GS in the stable (650L) has Progressive fork springs and some longer-than-stock, OEM-looking shocks, not sure what they came off.

.

 

[one_civic]

 

[one_civic]

 

[one_civic]

Sorry for the large pictures but these are the shocks that are being offered to me for $150 a pair, the fox ones look pretty rough but the Koni's don't look too bad, There is no additional information about them. I'm leaning more toward the Koni's but I don't know anything about them or how much it would cost if they need to be rebuilt,

All I know is that they both came off an 81 gs1100e

 

[one_civic]

Does anyone recognize the koni's?

 

[Steve]

Does anyone recognize the koni's?

Not really, but I think I see at least one blue dot on the spring. Look for other colored dots, they will be the code for the spring rate.

Here is a (not very close) shot of the Konis on my 850:

 

[one_civic]

Thanks Steve, I'm still debating on taking a chance and buying the koni's or buying the RFY's and have them rebuilt.

 

[Steve]

If you get the KONIs, you can get rebuild kits for them through IKON.

IKON bought everything from KONI when they went out of business. Well, everything execpt the name, so they moved the "I" to the other end of the word. All the model numbers are the same. Virtually all of the rebuild kits are still available. IKON is based in Australia, but they have an American distributor in San Fransisco, so parts are readily-available.

.

 

[Chuck78]

What shocks did you end up getting? Those Fox's are somewhat sought after, & Evolution Suspension makes &/or sources all of the parts for them
Fox Street Shox. I think they only have a shim washer stack for compression dampening, and have a fixed orifice for rebound. good ride still. Nitrogen port at top for pressurizing slightly or adding remote reservoirs if you want to turn them into piggyback style.
The Koni are a good shock, more consistent dampening as they are a twin tube design. There is an outer chamber with the air cushion, and an inner tube that is the main cylinder. They are connected at the bottom by a foot valve & ports, so that the oil that is directly against the air/gas and gets foamed a lot will stay away from the valving. Foamed oil dampens totally different from straight oil with no creamy air bubbles. Almost as consistent as the DeCarbon design (piggybacks or internal floating pistons).

IKON's & the slightly newer or higher model Koni's have the "Dial-A-Ride" 4 click rebound knob, but basically all of the internals are the same. I was told Ikon said they don't have all the parts for the old Koni's anymore, but Konimon / RHaagUSA on Honda forums & eBay has sourced them & sells them.

Those are the aluminum body 76F's. I am considering buying a pair. They go for $250-350 in good shape. Not as advanced as newer shock valving, but they are far better than stock. They will likely ride more consistently over the long haul after bumpy sections than the Fox, but the Fox has a larger piston, which helps.

With any used vintage shock or fork, if the chrome shafts or fork stanchions have any rust pitting or scoring that would affect the sealing of pressurized oil mixture in, then things get costly. The price should reflect that. Shafts should be available. Definitely for the Fox, & the newer Ikon 7610 shaft&damper may just drop into that body. The new version of that Koni 76F (Ikon 7614-1296) retails for like $550-600. I think it can be ordered through a Triumph shop New Bonneville for under $500, seems to be the place the Honda CB guys go to for them.

The problem with the Koni's was that over time, they have a rubber top out bumper internally that degrades & chunks of rubber then get stuck in the valving & render them nonfunctional with the dampening jammed shut or stuck open. Its recommended on any unknown set to do a tear down & inspection followed by a meticulous cleaning & reassembly, good time for new seals/o-rings & new top out bumper.

 

[Chuck78]

Its been a few months, but if looking at new, I always tell people the following.
#1 - rebuild forks first, modify for & add cartridge emulators & springs or chop the stockers, clean internals, inspect for stanchions' (upper/inner legs') chrome for anything that will cause sealing problems or damage the new fork seals, replace slider and stanchion bushings with OEM or Racetech.
Now you have healthy forks and 3 valving circuits instead of 1 - high & low speed travel dampening for compression, & rebound, 1000% better than stock, plus a proper spring rate without the ill-advised pressurizing emulsion forks with air.

#2 address your rear shocks next, and spend $200-800 (as much as you can afford/justify) on rear shocks.


My advice, cheaper @ top to best @ bottom:

$200 Hagon or Progressive shocks sprung & valved for your bike/rider weight & riding style, passenger&luggage considered (goes for all shocks bought new)

$309 Hagon 2810 non-rebuildable but with 10 click adjustable rebound

$350-$380 Ikon 7610 twin tube shock absorber - more consistent than a standard emulsion shock due to twin tube design. Rebuildable.

$450 YSS C-302 alloy body piggyback (oil & gas cushion are totally seperated for no foaming, more consistent dampening), valved&sprung custom for you. 12mm shaft 30mm piston, best dampening for the money as long as you don't need adjustable rebound (can dismantle & adjust if needed).

$500 Ikon 7614-1296 (clevis bottom is 1296, alloy body is 7614)
Same as the steel 7610 but infinite preload adj with threaded collar on aluminum body.

$500 YSS Z-362 12mm shaft 36mm piston self adjusting gas pressurized emulsion shock with 10mm +/- ride height adjustment and 60 clicks rebound adjustment - very nice! Self adjusting valving tries to compensate for foaming of oil (hence change in viscosity) after bumpy sections.



$570 YSS G-302-TRL piggyback style (oil&gas cushion are totally seperated for no foaming, more consistent dampening) 12mm shaft 30mm piston with 10mm +/- ride height adjustment and 60 clicks rebound adjustment - very nice!

$700 YSS G-302-TRCL same as above but also has 20 clicks compression dampening adjustment

$770 YSS G-362-TRCL same as above but the larger piston & oil capacity (more consistent dampening) but only 3 clicks compression adjustment (add $50 for 20 clicks comp adj)

$780 Gazi Hyper X - fully adjustable piggyback. less details on specs on website but similar to the YSS G-362-TRCL but 40mm piston & 15mm shaft. This is the only shock in their lineup that compares better than a similar YSS.


$$$$$ YSS Z-366 emulsion shocks and G-366 piggybacks - these big boys cost a few hundred more but have very stout 16mm shafts for those extreme riders or loaded tourers.

You get so much more out of YSS for the money than Ohlins, Wilbur's, or other high end offerings. YSS has made a string effort for more than a decade to put out better and better quality products to keep on the cutting edge, and their quality shows as soon as you have one of these in your hands. Based in Thailand with an R&D/design office in Australia as well, and a USA headquarters on top of that. Gazi is also from Thailand.

The only shocks I have left put that I think deserve more are Works Performance & Fox's new line of Podium & Podium R's. Cognito Moto had Fox make some special runs if these tailored towards cafe racers and vintage bikes, and for like $500-600 standard & $900-1000 piggyback.

Also, for eye-to-eye only (no clevis), the $500-ish Hagon Nitro is a great shock.

 

[tkent02]

I'd like to know why every time I buy shocks for these bikes they ride hard as a rock. Hagons on my 550/675, Ikons on an old 750, Ohlins on the 1000, now just tried Progressive on my 750, all hard as a rock. I have never been able to buy a shock for any price and get a nice smooth comfortable ride. They can't actually believe the customers who buy this stuff want their backbones pounded every mile. Hell I might as well buy a hard tail.

 

[tom203]

"I'd like to know why every time I buy shocks for these bikes they ride hard as a rock. "

I just put on a set of used Showas off a low milesge gs550t. At first i thought they would be too soft on my pitiful roads, but after about 500 miles with them, i feel lucky - they work well and make me realize just how poorly my old ones were. I was not in the mood to research the choices available during my limited riding season.

 

[Chuck78]

I'd like to know why every time I buy shocks for these bikes they ride hard as a rock. Hagons on my 550/675, Ikons on an old 750, Ohlins on the 1000, now just tried Progressive on my 750, all hard as a rock. I have never been able to buy a shock for any price and get a nice smooth comfortable ride. They can't actually believe the customers who buy this stuff want their backbones pounded every mile. Hell I might as well buy a hard tail.

Maybe you're barely a buck fifty like myself? Good thing is companies like Dave Quinn Motorcycles (preferred Hagon Dealer) have a free 1 time spring exchange if you don't feel good with the original spring selection. I remember TheCafeKid said the same thing about an $800-$900 group purchase buy on a set of lower end Ohlins, he got rid of them... The rebound dampening needs to be roughly tailored to the spring rate as well, so buying new from a reputable shop or the manufacturer (YSS-USA, Dave Quinn, etc) is a huge bonus.

 

[Chuck78]

I got very lucky with my 1981/82 Fox Factory Shox once I got a misleading seller to give me a partial $100 refund on the "chrome on shafts is perfect" claim so I could spend $170 on two reproduction shafts...

Those rare vintage Fox's are a Piggyback design with a reservoir piston separating the Nitrogen from the oil. They were from a GS1000. Short spring ("medium") & long spring ("medium-light") combo. I was afraid it might be too soft. Nope. Tried preloaded at close to 6 or 7 steps out of 8& the thing was stiff as a board, could not compress on bench. Backed off to previous owner's 3rd setting, firm ride but good. Dampening was amazing. Might back off 1 more to test, but those things are amazing. No fade at all on rough roads, viscosity insensitive design also. Basically like a the $450 YSS but a much larger piston & steel main cylinder alloy head & res. Great setup.