New mufflers for GS850 issue

[gssuzukixxx]

I was all set to swap out the rusted out mufflers on my '79 GS850 for some nice ones from my new GS750 parts bike. But the middle 2 pipes on the 850 are welded to the mufflers. It almost looks factory because the welds are very neat.

I also have the header pipes from the 750 so I could also swap them out but header bolts on the 850 do not want to turn in a good way...they feel like they are twisting instead of turning, if you know what I mean. So I left them alone. I do not want to create a nightmare for myself with broken off header bolts.

Any thoughts on this? If I started and warmed the 850 up would those bolts come out easier?

As it stands the right now the 850 mufflers have holes rusted through that are covered with aluminum tape. They are quiet and seem to function OK. Should I just leave well enough alone?

Brian

 

[tas850g]

the middle two head pipes (#2 & #3) are normally welded like that. Soon I will be in the process of doing something similiar. I will cut the middle 2 pipes at the welds inorder to put the new mufflers on.

As far as the exhaust bolts. There are a number of recommendations that have been tossed around here. I plan on taking my bike to someone with torches, after spraying PB Blaster on each bolt for a week or two, and having them heat up the bolts and slowly back them out. I'm sure someone will chime in on their best procedure.

I've had the bolts off for #1 & #2 exhaust so all i have to do is deal with #3 & #4.

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

I just wanted to encourage you to fix your exhaust issues properly, or else you're just putting it off until later. Use your favorite bolt loosening liquid and heat. Someone posted recently how well a 50-50 mixture of acetone and ATF works as a loosening agent. You might give that a try. If you do snap an exhaust bolt, an Easy Out can work. Have a look at this:

http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/may2003/techtotech.htm - The art of extracting snapped bolts.

Keep an eye on the ebay for a used exhaust or craigslist for a parts bike. Can you cut and weld the headers while they're still on the bike? That would really seem too inconvenient. Good luck. Take some pictures and let us know what you come up with.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Guest]

Hi,

I just wanted to encourage you to fix your exhaust issues properly, or else you're just putting it off until later. Use your favorite bolt loosening liquid and heat. Someone posted recently how well a 50-50 mixture of acetone and ATF works as a loosening agent. You might give that a try. If you do snap an exhaust bolt, an Easy Out can work. Have a look at this:

http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/may2003/techtotech.htm - The art of extracting snapped bolts.

Keep an eye on the ebay for a used exhaust or craigslist for a parts bike. Can you cut and weld the headers while they're still on the bike? That would really seem too inconvenient. Good luck. Take some pictures and let us know what you come up with.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

You're correct Cliff, an easy out *can* work. BUt they usually dont.
Just went through this issue with my Skunk.(1 exhaust and 1 intake bolt)
Although tempting, I didnt even attempt to use an extractor.

 

[gssuzukixxx]

OK I have the exhaust completely removed but I managed to twist off 1 of the header bolts.

IMG]http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh57/royalenfieldxxx/P1000936.jpg[/IMG]
The good news is that there is about 1/16" of bolt sticking out from the head. In an attempt to drill a hole down the middle I centre punched the bolt in it's centre. But I cannot get a straight shot at the bolt with my drill because of the frame tube. The drill chuck comes up against the frame tube. I need to find a solution to that.

So I sprayed the bolt with liquid wrench and will leave it til tomorrow.

I will keep you posted. Any suggestions on the drill?

Brian

 

[four_shot]

Try looking at the hardware store for extended length drill bits. You may also try not fully seating the bit in the chuck.

A final thought, if you get the bits with the 1/4 hex shanks, you can get various length extensions to space the chuck away from the tube.

 

[mvalenti]

the acetone and atf work well... saturate, and wait and saturate, and wait... time is your friend here... if you can weld somethign to it, all the better, or perhaps use a dremel to cut a slot. then if it does turn, work it back and forth, and saturate...

i try to heat up the "hole" rather than the bolt... in theory, and in successful practice, the hole will grow and free itself from the bolt... I never understood why you wanted to heat a bolt to make it expand in a hole you would want it to be removed from...

anyway, my 2 cents...

 

[gssuzukixxx]

Thanks for the suggestions. I will mix up some ATF and acetone and try that for a few days.

BTW why did Suzuki weld up those middle pipes like that. The GS750 has all the header pipes clamped to the mufflers and the whole thing come apart easily and does not leak. All I can see is that on the 750 the mufflers are mounted to the frame in 2 places whereast he 850 only 1.

Brian

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

It looks like you've made good progress, and only one busted bolt.That's not bad at all! Later on you will be very happy that you took care of this properly. I know it's inconvenient right now, but it really is best to get it done right. Well done. The extended length drill bit is a great idea.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[vicimus]

gssuzukixxx: Almost the exact thing happened to me last week, except it was my #2 header bolt. The real problem is that frame bar.

I'm no expert but here's what I did and it seemed to work well enough:

First of course was days worth of PB Blaster but that didn't seem to help with that particular bolt.

After that I figured I'd try and get an extractor in there and see if I could still spin it out. For the drill bit, I used a medium length... not the real long aircraft drill bit because I didn't remove my front wheel and there's not enough room to get it lined up straight. I'm sure it would have been easier with the front wheel out of the way though.

I used a center punch to get the hole started and used a fairly small drill bit.

Because I didn't want to drill in TOO far, I put the bit inside one of the empty holes and marked exactly how deep the hole was.

I tried the extractor but it definitely still didn't want to budge. I didn't try the heat since I don't own a torch. One useful tool is an adjustable tap socket. It fits right on to the end of the extractor so you can use your socket wrench. DON'T twist it too hard.. you'll end up with an extractor snapped off inside of your bolt, and that's not drill-able. I had that happen on another bike. It's a nightmare.

So.. extracting didn't work and I ended up drilling. I drilled the whole length of the bolt with a small bit straight down the center. You can tell when you've gone through the entire thing because there's a pocket of air behind it and you'll notice when you punch through. After that I drilled with a bit just slightly smaller than the actual threads and I was lucky enough to get it dead center. Through the whole process I sprayed the hole with more PB Blaster & used compressed air to clean out the hole. I also put some shop towels in the 4 exhaust holes to make sure no metal shavings got into the engine.

After drilling I re-tapped the hole with the original threads. I believe it was an 8mm 1.25 tap. It worked like a charm. It seemed to just clean the broken bolt right out of the old threads. I did have to back it out a few times and blow out the old thread shavings. The tap socket was extremely useful here as well. I bought a set of 2 and used the smaller one since the larger one did not fit past the frame tube.

In addition I cleaned up some of the other holes with the tap to make sure the bolts went in smoothly and applied anti-seize to each bolt before installing the new exhaust.

Badabing! New exhaust! ... of course it backfires like a SOB now because the fuel/air mixture is way off.

Anyway, sorry for the long posting, but I hope my ordeal helps you! One thing I really wish I'd tried before drilling was to dremel out a slit in the center of the bolt that was sticking out and try an impact driver to spin it out.. might have saved me the drilling. Also, the whole "heat" thing might have worked..

 

[gssuzukixxx]

Thanks for all the help guys. It was a team effort and I managed to extract the broken bolt. Once that was done the exhaust system went together in about 10 minutes. I thought the old rusted out mufflers with the aluminum tape was working OK but now I see that this is way quieter.

Thanks especially to Vicimus. You wrote a very detailed account of how you fixed yours and I ended up doing exactly the same thing.

These mufflers are from a '77 GS750 and they have an additional mounting point near the passenger footrest. There is no corresponding threaded boss on the 850 frame but I think I will try and provide some kind of support there. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks
Brian

 

[Guest]

Make sure you use an Anti-Seize Lubricant on the threads. I would also chase the threads with a tap before you put it back together.

 

[gssuzukixxx]

Make sure you use an Anti-Seize Lubricant on the threads. I would also chase the threads with a tap before you put it back together.

Thanks OldVet...I did use antisieze but it's worth repeating.

 

[SqDancerLynn1]

I have a motor, the pos just cut all the heads off the bolts . At least they left enough to weld a nut to it..

 

[gssuzukixxx]

Today I took my first ride on the 850 with the new (to me) exhaust. Nice and quiest...engine running a bit smoother.

But WTF, I looked in the rear view mirror and could see clouds of blue smoke coming from the left muffler. Oh no, I just get my exhaust fixed up and the motor needs a rebuild!

Went straight home but as I got there I saw that there was no more blue smoke. Turned around and went for a 30 km ride and no smoke. I think that the mufflers put on had oil inside them from their previous bike which had suffered a siezure.

Anyway, all is well (as far as I know)

Thanks again for the help.

Brian

 

[oldgsfan]

Great thread. Thanks for sharing your experiences. I plan to do this same thing in a couple of weeks and expect I'll run into similar situations. Your write ups make it sound like a feasible project.

I expect I'll be saving this thread to help when I get started.