New Rear Shocks - Questions, Feedback, etc.

[Anonymous]

I found Dennis Kirk pricey. I got Progressive shocks at http://www.chaparral-racing.com and saved about 80 bucks on the set for my GPz compared to D-K, but I think they'll match prices. They are very nice shocks and you will notice the difference if your old ones are as shot as mine were. A guy at a local shop put the springs on for free w/o a compressor (!) but it looked painful as he did it by compressing with his hands and somehow slipping the collet on.

the correct term by the way, not 'dampening'

BTW the Commonwealth countries use dampener which means the same as damper, just isn't used in the U.S. Kinda like sewage/sewerage or aluminum/aluminium (Americans always laugh at aluminium but if you think about it, that is really more consistent with other element names like magnesium, strontium, barium, etc.)

 

[AOD]

You must have the cool high tech shocks Joe, they didn't have those below 83.

We were out riding on New Years Day and we hit a strech of a bumpy road...man that thing was bottoming out. I know where I'm riding and testing out the new shock/spring combo when I do get it on!

~Adam

 

[Anonymous]

I'm a Koni fan, so as soon as I bought my 1981 GS1000S back in 2000, I replaced the shocks and springs with new Koni 7610 series shocks and springs, but have to say I was slightly disappointed, as they don't do anything much better than the stockers, that are actually very good.

The Ikons are just as good (they're virtually the same shock) as Koni's, but the baastards increased the price about 30%, I paid about $350.00 AUD (about $275.00 US) for my Koni's, but now they retail for close to $500.00! ($400.00 US) Unbelieveable, I could handle paying 350 for something made in Holland that has to be shipped to Oz, but for something that's made 3 hours up the highway from my place, well, that just sucks!

Cheers, Terry. :twisted:

Here is the reply I recieved today from IKON to my question:
At 12:58 AM 1/4/2005, you wrote:
Is IKON related to KONI?

Ive been told by numerous bike shops that they are, but I would like verification of this directly please.

Their reply to me today:

----- Original Message -----
From: ikon@ikonsuspension.com
To: GS750
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 2:10 PM
Subject: Re:

The answer is yes and no.

Koni is part of ITT and we are not so at the corporate level there is no connection.

Koni did make bike shocks which they stopped doing at the beginning of 2001. We were Koni's distributor of motorcycle shocks in Australia (along with other products Koni still make) and we signed an agreement with Koni allowing us and us alone to use their technology and designs to make the motorcycle shocks. Hence the icon Koni was in the motorcycle shock absorber market lives on with Ikon. This is so much so that all parts from the last of Koni's 7610 series shocks and some others also are totally interchangeable with those in our Ikon shocks. That is because they are made using the same drawings and in many cases the same tools and machines as they were.

I hope that clarifies things for you and that we can be of some assistance to you in the near future.

As we say, Bike On With Ikon!

Regards
Geoff

 

[AOD]

I got ignored by them.

 

[Joe Nardy]

I got ignored by them.

Who is this?

Did you say something?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Jethro]

You must have the cool high tech shocks Joe, they didn't have those below 83.

Yeah, we have sweet shocks on our 83's. I have no desire to change them out. I'm not sure if my 81's shocks are blown or what, but the 83 rides about 1000 times better.

 

[AOD]

IKON responded:

Dear Adam,

Thanks for your enquiry.

Sorry to have been slow in coming back to you. We have been closed for
Christmas holidays and other annual leave until yesterday.

As you might have seen we don't have the GS550E in our list. However it
seems simple enough given we have the GS500 and it also takes a 13 inch shock.

The shocks we make in that length for the Suzuki's all have our 4 position
adjustable rebound damping. The only shock in that length which does not
have adjustable damping is for a Norton and going down that path would not
be saving you a cent, in fact it could cost you more. The cost of a pair of
the adjustable shocks including shipping to the US is AUD$480.00. This
price is possible in either black body and black spring or chrome body and
black spring. Naturally the spring we would use would be selected based on
the rider weight you have given.

As you might realise our shocks are quite a bit different to those made by
Gabriel (and perhaps others) for Progressive. Not only do ours have
adjustable damping but are rebuildable too.

In case you would like to go ahead I have attached an order form.

Regards
Geoff

 

[first timer]

if i was you i would send a pic to just makes sure and confirm that they are the same.

-ryan

 

[AOD]

Follow-up emails:

At 03:02 PM 1/10/2005, you wrote:
Geoff,

This is a tough one here. Progressive shocks and springs come in new
(assembled) for about $229 USD, so this means it runs $130 for adjustable
damping with the IKON shocks.

I'm having a hard time justifying $130 will result in that much better of
a ride over the already 'famous' (so to speak) progressive reputation.

~Adam
>

Hi Adam,

The 412 series Progressive product is one of the most basic shocks on the
market in that to the best of our knowledge it is commonly made by Gabriel
in the US and or Mexico. Love Gabriel dearly as we do (I have worked for
their representative in Australia off and on for many years) the shocks
they make are not the calibre of those which Koni designed which we make
under license these days.

The other side is the spring choice. My experience over the years has been
that the spring rate progressions as designed by Koni, which we continue to
use, are much nicer to ride on than just about anyone else's including
those offered by Progressive.

The choice clearly is yours and I am in no position to say you would not be
happy with product supplied by any number of other manufacturers, chances
are if they are well specified in terms of the thought that needs to go
into your particular needs then you could well be satisfied. I am of the
belief though that there are some inherent advantages to what we offer
which are more than just damping adjustability. It costs money to get those
advantages and hence the price difference. Up to you but there is nothing I
can do about the price, especially when a large slice if it goes straight
to TNT who do our international air freight.

Regards
Geoff

 

[Joe Nardy]

Adam,

I found a source at Adventure BMW in Chesapeake VA that will order Ikon shocks for $319.95 plus shipping. I'm seriously considering the Ikons just for the adjustable damping. This is a very nice feature if you switch between one-up and two-up riding a lot. It will be difficult to find a compromise that will work well for both. Sprint preload adjustment helps but damping makes more difference. Being rebuildable is a bonus. I'm also going to get the Race Tech Cartridge Emulators for my forks.

Joe

 

[AOD]

Joe, can you post the contact info for this place.

I'm still toying with the notion of a GS1000/1100 instead of making this 550 for dual up riding...which means I'm not gonna spend a ton on shocks if I go that route.

Of course I can afford shocks now...not a new bike.

 

[Joe Nardy]

Joe, can you post the contact info for this place.

http://www.adventurebmw.com/

I'm still toying with the notion of a GS1000/1100 instead of making this 550 for dual up riding...which means I'm not gonna spend a ton on shocks if I go that route.

That is probably the best way to go. The 1000/1100's are roomier and of course have more power for two up riding.

Of course I can afford shocks now...not a new bike.

 

[Jethro]

Joe, are your stock shocks junk? They have adjustable dampening. I like mine a lot.

 

[Joe Nardy]

Joe, are your stock shocks junk? They have adjustable dampening. I like mine a lot.

Jethro,

Junk? Certainly not. Twenty year old technology, spring, oil, etc.? Definitely. Yes, they have adjustable damping and spring preload but I am maxed out on both and could still use more of both when riding two-up. I have spoiled myself by buying the FJR1300. Like everything else, suspension technology has come a long way since our bikes were designed and built. My FJR has a significantly smoother ride, absorbs bumps better, and is much more stable than the GS. I realize the GS will never have the same suspension quality as the FJR but I do know that significant improvement can be made also. I was thinking of going with the Progressive shocks but they have no damping adjustment. I can't believe that one setting will be good for all riding conditions. I want the adjustability. I'm also going to install Race Tech Cartridge Emulators and Race Tech straight rate springs in my forks. This is supposed to make a HUGE difference in fork action. Both Ikon and Race Tech offer tech support so I can get the proper springs for my weight and type of riding as well as advice on weight of fork oil and settings to fit my needs. I realize I'll be spending quite a bit of $$$$ but I think it will be worth it.

Joe

 

[Jethro]

Ah yes, your mistake was buying that awesome Yamaha.

Glad I didn't make that mistake, jeez... :?

 

[Joe Nardy]

Ah yes, your mistake was buying that awesome Yamaha.

Glad I didn't make that mistake, jeez... :?

Yeah, sometimes my level of stupidity amazes me!

 

[terry]

G'Day Guys, well as much as the percecption that adjustable damping is the Koni/Ikon's biggest selling point, to me it's the "rebuild-ability". There are many out there (myself included) who have bought the 7610 series Koni shocks maybe 10 years ago, and are still running the same oil in them that they came out with!

Ooohhh, rear shock oil, what's that? Well think about it for a minute, most of our bikes are 20+ years old, they've all been through a couple of sets of fork seals (and new oil) in that time, but if we're still running the original shocks, then we are running 20+ year old shock oil, (it it hasn't all bypassed the seals by now) as our OEM shocks are not rebuildable.

A mate gave me a pair of 7610 series Koni's, and as one was apparently leaking I bought new rebuild kits, and after fabricating a peg spanner to competely disassemble them, the oil that came out was pretty disgusting, and I doubt that it's damping qualities would have been very good at all.

Hmmnnn, maybe it was because this one was leaking? I pulled the other (non leaking) shock apart, and the color, smell and estimated viscosity(?) was identical. It was just foul smelling rust colored goop. The shocks were off my mate's bike, which had travelled about 11000 miles since the shocks were installed by a previous owner in 1996.

Anyway, I'm rebuilding the Koni's at the moment with new 15W fork oil, and I plan to change that every 12 months, to keep them fresh. Even though the Koni/Ikons are too damn expensive to buy new compared to all the afore mentioned brands, the advantage to me is that as they are infinately rebuildable, they can be used for the life of the bike, and not thrown away every few years, as non-rebuildable shocks probably should.

Here's some interesting info I found when cruising shock absorber sites. Of note was that an initial shock oil change should be conducted after just 1000 miles! Check it out:

http://www.deycore.com/foxinfo.htm

 

[Anonymous]

My FJR has a significantly smoother ride, absorbs bumps better, and is much more stable than the GS. I realize the GS will never have the same suspension quality as the FJR but I do know that significant improvement can be made also

Joe,

I disagree completely with your thoughts on the GS versus FJR suspension. If you rebuild your fork with emulators, the RT springs and good oil, then tune it properly, it will blow away the FJR fork. Properly tuned, the FJR fork should be better, because it is probably a shim stack damping system (which is superior to damping rods). But in its OEM form, the FJR will not touch a properly rebuilt GS fork.

As for shocks, a new set of Ikon's or Progressives should be at least equal to your OEM FJR shocks, maybe even significantly better depending on how well yamaha did with the stock ones (even new bikes are really not that good from the factory, compared to top aftermarket stuff). If you went whole hog and bought Ohlins or even better Penske's, then they too would be vastly superior to anything Yamaha has made. Granted, the price of those is painful in the extreme. 8O

Do your fork like we discussed and you will be amazed at how poor your FJR suddenly feels...

One other thing to consider is that your FJR uses 17" radial tires. They are responsible for much of the combination of excellent stability and agility of that beast. If you fitted the same to your GS, it would fare pretty well against the shiny new FJR in that department, too. Probably not equal, but pretty close.

I will be working over my forks in the next couple of weeks and I will take some pics to pass on to you when it is done. How much do you weigh? If we are about the same size, I will be the guinea pig and let you know what settings I come up with.

Mark

 

[AOD]

I disagree completely with your thoughts on the GS versus FJR suspension. If you rebuild your fork with emulators, the RT springs and good oil, then tune it properly, it will blow away the FJR fork. Properly tuned, the FJR fork should be better, because it is probably a shim stack damping system (which is superior to damping rods). But in its OEM form, the FJR will not touch a properly rebuilt GS fork.

Yeah and you can make a Geo Metro blow away a stock Ford Mustang with enough money and upgrades too. But I agree you, enough tuning on anything will make it better than OEM.

~Adam

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah and you can make a Geo Metro blow away a stock Ford Mustang with enough money and upgrades too. But I agree you, enough tuning on anything will make it better than OEM.

It's not that much effort or money, really. The tuning part is simply getting the preload set correctly and tweaking the emulators slightly to set the amount of low speed compression damping you like. One afternoon of fiddling for a lifetime of awesome suspension...

Emulators - $149USD retail from Race Tech
Springs - $110USD Retail from Race Tech
Fork Oil - $20 from your local dealer
Time - a couple of nights in the garage and an afternoon tuning.
Result - Amazing fork performance that you never thought possible.

Seems reasonable to me.

I have a friend who rebuilt his FJ1100 forks with emulators and springs. He let a buddy (owner of a shiny new CBR954) ride the FJ. His buddy was so offended by how poorly his 954 forks worked in comparison to the FJ that he immediately sent the front end in to Traxxion Dynamics for a re-work. Similar things are possible with the GS forks.

Mark