New Rear Shocks - Questions, Feedback, etc.

[Joe Nardy]

Joe,

I disagree completely with your thoughts on the GS versus FJR suspension. If you rebuild your fork with emulators, the RT springs and good oil, then tune it properly, it will blow away the FJR fork. Properly tuned, the FJR fork should be better, because it is probably a shim stack damping system (which is superior to damping rods). But in its OEM form, the FJR will not touch a properly rebuilt GS fork.

As for shocks, a new set of Ikon's or Progressives should be at least equal to your OEM FJR shocks, maybe even significantly better depending on how well Yamaha did with the stock ones (even new bikes are really not that good from the factory, compared to top aftermarket stuff). If you went whole hog and bought Ohlins or even better Penske's, then they too would be vastly superior to anything Yamaha has made. Granted, the price of those is painful in the extreme. 8O

Do your fork like we discussed and you will be amazed at how poor your FJR suddenly feels...

One other thing to consider is that your FJR uses 17" radial tires. They are responsible for much of the combination of excellent stability and agility of that beast. If you fitted the same to your GS, it would fare pretty well against the shiny new FJR in that department, too. Probably not equal, but pretty close.

I will be working over my forks in the next couple of weeks and I will take some pics to pass on to you when it is done. How much do you weigh? If we are about the same size, I will be the guinea pig and let you know what settings I come up with.

I have a friend who rebuilt his FJ1100 forks with emulators and springs. He let a buddy (owner of a shiny new CBR954) ride the FJ. His buddy was so offended by how poorly his 954 forks worked in comparison to the FJ that he immediately sent the front end in to Traxxion Dynamics for a re-work. Similar things are possible with the GS forks.

Mark,

I am still skeptical that the GS forks will out perform the FJR's. But I will be thrilled if they do. Keep in mind that the FJR's forks are much stiffer due to greater diameter (48mm vs. 36mm on the GS) and are easily adjustable for spring preload as well as compression and rebound damping.

Part of my skepticism comes from various comments I've read online regarding the Emulators. Some people say the difference is huge, some say it is hardly noticeable. I'm guessing the ones who get them set up correctly see the huge difference and those that don't are the ones who see little improvement.

I appreciate your offer to be the guinea pig and supply pictures and suggestions. I would welcome any help your experience can provide. I weigh 225 lbs. and often ride two-up. In case you are unaware, Race Tech has a valving and setup area on their website. Here's a link:

Race Tech Custom Valving

Go through the selection screens and enter your personal info. Leave the spaces for Access Codes blank and you will get customized settings for your bike, weight, and type of riding. My sheet calls for 2 turns of Emulator Valve Spring preload, 30 wt. fork oil at a level of 130mm, 1.138kg/mm spring rate, and 25mm of spring preload.

Also, our bikes use the same emulators and springs as '86-01 Kawasaki Concours. Arizona Motorsports has the Emulators for $125.95 and the springs for $90.85. I'm ordering right now.............

Thanks,
Joe

 

[Joe Nardy]

P.S. I'm still trying to decide about shocks. I really want the adjustability of the Ikons and being rebuildable is a huge plus too. If I hadn't dropped $350 on sump pump repairs last week :evil: it would be a no-brainer. For now the Progressives are still a possibility.

Joe

 

[Anonymous]

am still skeptical that the GS forks will out perform the FJR's. But I will be thrilled if they do. Keep in mind that the FJR's forks are much stiffer due to greater diameter (48mm vs. 36mm on the GS) and are easily adjustable for spring preload as well as compression and rebound damping.

The bigger diameter will definitely be stiffer, but the damping performance is not dependent on the size, only the valving. And of course, the easy adjustability is a major bonus. Once you get your forks set, they usually don't change much, but it's way easier to set them with all of the clickers on a modern set of forks.

Some people say the difference is huge, some say it is hardly noticeable.

Interesting. I have never heard anybody say they were less than a miracle when installed. I will find out soon on my bike. Keep in mind, I am not simply adding the emulators, I am doing a complete fork rebuild and blueprint, so I expect to gain from more than just the emulators themselves.

I would welcome any help your experience can provide. I weigh 225 lbs. and often ride two-up.

Even better than my experience is a buddy who was a tech at Traxxion Dynamics for a while and has installed numerous sets of emulators. He is the one with the FJ that I mentioned previously. Between all of us, we will get this sorted properly.

Well, we are going to have to do some tweaking, since I weigh 175lb and seldom carry a passenger... :? With your all-up weight, you will definitely want the 1.0kg/mm spring rate. I am a bit in between at a recommended 0.98kg/mm, but Race Tech tends to recommend rates on the soft side, so I have decided to go with the 1.0kg/mm rate to be sure. I can always run a bit less preload if I find them a touch too stiff.

Fortunately, the only thing you will have to really do differently is the spring preload amount. Oil weight is almost comletely controlled by the rebound damping requirements and compression damping is set with the spring preload on the emulators themselves. You will have to fiddle a bit with the compression settings because they are a personal preference and you need to get what is comfortable for you. I tend to like compression a bit softer than some of my buddies, so you will probably need to fine tune that.

Mark

 

[Joe Nardy]

Even better than my experience is a buddy who was a tech at Traxxion Dynamics for a while and has installed numerous sets of emulators. He is the one with the FJ that I mentioned previously. Between all of us, we will get this sorted properly.

Mark,

Cool. Thanks in advance for the help of you and your buddy. Your experiences will undoubtedly make my job easier.

Well, we are going to have to do some tweaking, since I weigh 175lb and seldom carry a passenger... :? With your all-up weight, you will definitely want the 1.0kg/mm spring rate. I am a bit in between at a recommended 0.98kg/mm, but Race Tech tends to recommend rates on the soft side, so I have decided to go with the 1.0kg/mm rate to be sure. I can always run a bit less preload if I find them a touch too stiff.

Yes, I ordered the 1.0 springs. According to their spring rate selector I could have used 1.1kg/mm but 1.0 is the stiffest they make. I'm sure adding preload will get them where I need them.

Fortunately, the only thing you will have to really do differently is the spring preload amount. Oil weight is almost comletely controlled by the rebound damping requirements and compression damping is set with the spring preload on the emulators themselves. You will have to fiddle a bit with the compression settings because they are a personal preference and you need to get what is comfortable for you. I tend to like compression a bit softer than some of my buddies, so you will probably need to fine tune that.

Mark

So, are you going to use 30wt. fork oil? That's what their customized settings recommended for me. Let me know what weight and brand fork oil you use because I'll probably use the same stuff so your results will be most meaningful.

Joe

 

[AOD]

P.S. I'm still trying to decide about shocks. I really want the adjustability of the Ikons and being rebuildable is a huge plus too. If I hadn't dropped $350 on sump pump repairs last week it would be a no-brainer. For now the Progressives are still a possibility.

I'm still indecesive too...depending on whether the new R/R fixes the charging system or if it's stator related. The $60 Emgo's may become an option because even they have to perform better than 26 year old originals...

~Adam

 

[terry]

Adam, save your $60.00 towards a decent pair of shocks and leave the Emgo's alone, it'll only end in tears, ha ha! Cheers, Terry. :twisted:

 

[AOD]

being poor > tears

 

[shortlid]

Have new Harley Shocks will they work on a '80 GS850G??

Have new Harley Shocks will they work on a '80 GS850G??

My friend works at a shop and saved a pair of BRAND NEW Aftermarket Harley Sportster shocks from scrap heap. They guy had just totaled the bike. He said I could have them if I wanted. Will these harley aftermarket shocks work on my '80 GS850G with 32k on the clock. I am 216 lbs. my girl like 160 and I have soft saddle bags and hard helmet case. The stock shocks bottom on sharp hits. :x

 

[AOD]

I talked a bit on the phone with Rob from CRC2 (about a bunch of stuff) and I brought up the Emgo shocks again. He said that they have yet to hear anyone come back with a negative comment...but many people are apprehensive of them when they buy. I know it's his job to be a salesman, but they're the kind of place that if you don't like it or it doesn't work as it should, they'll make it right. He also mentioned that the Progressive springs should install into the Emgo shock, and he said we could try it if I wanted.

If the harley shocks have the same eye-to-eye bolt and it fits...then try it! If not there's other options...just not as free.

~Adam

 

[shortlid]

Re: Have new Harley Shocks will they work on a '80 GS850G??

Re: Have new Harley Shocks will they work on a '80 GS850G??

My friend works at a shop and saved a pair of BRAND NEW Aftermarket Harley Sportster shocks from scrap heap. They guy had just totaled the bike. He said I could have them if I wanted. With they work on my '80 GS850G with 32k on the clock. I am 216 lbs. my girl like 160 and I have soft saddle bags and hard helmet case. The stock shocks bottom on sharp hits. :x

Well I measured the aftermarket sporster shocks and they are 13" unladden!! I think that is the size you guys said I would need for my '80 GS850G that I ride VERY LOADED-UP!!! My questions is what is the shock mount bolt size for my bike. Before I take the old shocks out I want to the know the bushings in the Harley shock mount eyes are the right size?? :wink:

 

[swifty]

Has anybody used these before?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...d=1,1&item=4549008343&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT



I want to rebuild my ft forks. What do I need and do I need any special tools?

 

[shortlid]

Re: Have new Harley Shocks will they work on a '80 GS850G??

Re: Have new Harley Shocks will they work on a '80 GS850G??

My friend works at a shop and saved a pair of BRAND NEW Aftermarket Harley Sportster shocks from scrap heap. They guy had just totaled the bike. He said I could have them if I wanted. With they work on my '80 GS850G with 32k on the clock. I am 216 lbs. my girl like 160 and I have soft saddle bags and hard helmet case. The stock shocks bottom on sharp hits. :x

Well I measured the aftermarket sporster shocks and they are 13" unladden!! I think that is the size you guys said I would need for my '80 GS850G that I ride VERY LOADED-UP!!! My questions is what is the shock mount bolt size for my bike. Before I take the old shocks out I want to the know the bushings in the Harley shock mount eyes are the right size?? :wink:

No ONE taht has done the rear shock replacement knows how big the rear mount bolts are?? Can I go on bikebandit and look at the rear shock mount bolts for my '80 GS850G will it give me the size?? I really don't want to take the rear end apart if I don't have the Harley shocks READY to drop in!! :? :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Have new Harley Shocks will they work on a '80 GS850G??

Re: Have new Harley Shocks will they work on a '80 GS850G??

My friend works at a shop and saved a pair of BRAND NEW Aftermarket Harley Sportster shocks from scrap heap. They guy had just totaled the bike. He said I could have them if I wanted. With they work on my '80 GS850G with 32k on the clock. I am 216 lbs. my girl like 160 and I have soft saddle bags and hard helmet case. The stock shocks bottom on sharp hits. :x

Well I measured the aftermarket sporster shocks and they are 13" unladden!! I think that is the size you guys said I would need for my '80 GS850G that I ride VERY LOADED-UP!!! My questions is what is the shock mount bolt size for my bike. Before I take the old shocks out I want to the know the bushings in the Harley shock mount eyes are the right size?? :wink:

No ONE taht has done the rear shock replacement knows how big the rear mount bolts are?? Can I go on bikebandit and look at the rear shock mount bolts for my '80 GS850G will it give me the size?? I really don't want to take the rear end apart if I don't have the Harley shocks READY to drop in!! :? :wink:

Has anyone checked the stud size for the Sporty ? This seems to be a low-cost upgrade from our old shocks, the H-D units are the right lenght and are eye to eye design.......need to see if mounting can be easily accomplished.
Ebay has several new or almost new Sporty shocks that can be had pretty cheap. We need a guinee pig.......

 

[shortlid]

Greg Wasserott has the right idea!!

Greg Wasserott has the right idea!!

Greg Wasserott, thank you for echoing my cry!! I HAVE a SET of AFTERMARKET H-D Sporty shocks I got from a trash heap for FREE!! They are 13" unsprung, have 10 preload adjment positions! But I can't get a diagram or anyone to tell me if the mounting stud diameter is teh same? If diff. I will have to find collars for the eyelet or stud! :roll:

 

[Anonymous]

Shortlid, are you the guinee pig!

If the shocks are 13" and eye to eye design, just check the bushing diameters against the stud diameters. If the shock mounting holes are a little tight, well that should be any easy fix. If the H-D mounting holes are larger than the mounting studs, then some type of bushing will be needed.

Toying with the idea of picking up a pair off eBay, just hate to be stuck with parts (and freight ) I can't use.

Please keep us posted, this may be a low-buck alternative for some of us.
Thanks,greg

 

[shortlid]

Would love too , BUT!!

Would love too , BUT!!

"I take the stage" I accept on one condition. "long pause" Some one %&$%^%$% measures the diameter of there shock mount studs!!! "everyone amazed and shocked" My GS is my ONLY transportation right now. 8O I can't take the stock shocks off and see how big they are, find out there are larger or smaller than the HD ones. Then put the bike back together with stock units, hunt for solution around town. Then take the bike apart again, and replace shocks with what I think MIGHT work!!! :evil:

 

[Anonymous]

My GS is my ONLY transportation right now. I can't take the stock shocks off and see how big they are, find out there are larger or smaller than the HD ones. Then put the bike back together with stock units, hunt for solution around town.

Sure you can. It will take all of 10 minutes to pull one shock off and measure the studs. I don't have an 850 or I could tell you what you have. My 1100E has a 12mm stud on top with a 10mm eye on the bottom for a clevis on the shock body. I don' t think that is the same as yours, however.


Mark

 

[shortlid]

Thanks but diff.

Thanks but diff.

My '80 GS850G has the same size chrome cap nuts on both sides TOP AND BOTTOM? :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

My '80 GS850G has the same size chrome cap nuts on both sides TOP AND BOTTOM?

Then it should be a piece of cake to check. Just pull the caps and take a vernier to the stud to see what size it is. That should take maybe 5 minutes intead of the 10 I originally estimated to pull a shock off.

It really is a simple thing to pull one shock to check, I changed out my shocks in maybe 25 minutes and that was without hurrying at all. Give it a try and you will see how simple it is. This is one of the areas where our bikes shine compared to new stuff. On my ZX-9, pulling the shock would take a good hour at least by the time you pulled all the bodywork required and dug into the guts of the chassis. My 1100E is MUCH easier than that...


Mark

 

[shortlid]

OK, Is it safe

OK, Is it safe

While the bike is on it's center stand can I take the upper shock mount nut off the bike without damaging the stud or the shock popping off the stud? :roll:

Joel