New wiseco head gasket leaks - Help!

[Wuts11]

Rebuilding top end on GS1100E. Head had valve guide,seals,and seating work done at a reputable machine shop and bored cylinder for 1166 cc. I assembled with wiseco pistons and gaskets. The gasket is a multi layer with no o'rings etc. Assembled and torqued everything carefully (obviously not careful enough) Started the motor, and almost right away had oil leaking badly along front of cylinder. I will start to work on it this weekend again although I was hoping to be riding. Any sugestions as to what to look for would be appreciated. Thanks by the way to BassCliff for your wecome .

 

[rapidray]

Unless the motor I am building is too big for it, I only use STOCK head & base gaskets. I use stock SUZUKI 1150 head gaskets & trim them to fit the bigger bores. Ray.

 

[Nessism]

The head and cylinder need to have a good sealing surface or the gasket will not seal. MLS type gaskets seem to be particularly picky about this requirement. When you pull the head off take a close look at the sealing surfaces and check them for flatness and surface imperfections. MLS gaskets need a fine surface finish as well so that's another thing to look at, particularly if your parts have corrosion damage on them which is pretty common from what I've seen.

 

[Big T]

Are you sure there aren't separate O rings that came with the head gasket?

 

[posplayr]

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=999230&postcount=97

Pos's POS Wiesco MLS gasket

Here is what it sounded like the first time it was started. Notice the oil leak that started soon after.

Does this look familiar?

1168 CC STARTUP VIDEO

As Ray mentioned he has some "magic snippers" to modify a stock GS1150 gasket. Hey Ray how bout my gaskets?


I copper coated the gasket below and it works fine without leaks.

 

[rapidray]

Jim, I have NEVER liked those graphite gaskets but I'll bet the coppercoat helped in your case. Ray.

 

[posplayr]

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=1008230&postcount=12

Big Jay from APE says it is very important to machine the head surfaces till they are sufficently "pretty".

I think he is right my surfaces certainly were not very pretty

 

[Nessism]

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=1008230&postcount=12

Big Jay from APE says it is very important to machine the head surfaces till they are sufficently "pretty".

I think he is right my surfaces certainly were not very pretty

Hey Jim,

I think you misunderstood Jay. His point (as I understand) was that surface imperfections in the head and cylinder surface finish are not critical on many air cooled engines and that cutting the head/cylinder don?t accomplish anything (in some cases) other than to make the parts look ?pretty?.

 

[posplayr]

Ed

Ed

Ed,
I think you are reading a lot into Jays' comment. I don't think he addressed the questions I posed and instead chose to simply being qute. Considering the implications of using a Weisco MLS and having it fail, I was certainly not satisfied with his response.
Jim

 

[Nessism]

Ed,
I think you are reading a lot into Jays' comment. I don't think he addressed the questions I posed and instead chose to simply being qute. Considering the implications of using a Weisco MLS and having it fail, I was certainly not satisfied with his response.
Jim

I agree that Jay did not answer your question, he glossed over it. He stated earlier in that thread you linked...

Many times on air cooled heads and blocks, there will be surface flaws in areas that don't matter. Surfacing to remove them, only makes it pretty."

My machinist said the same thing: surface imperfections are not critical unless they are located in the critical sealing areas - around the combustion chambers, around the cam chain opening, around the stud oil passages. My guy did not cut my head or cylinder very deeply and their were still surface imperfections remaining. He told me that these don't matter because of where they were located and his logic seemed to make sense to me.

 

[posplayr]

Ed

Ed

Ok so according to you , surface preparation doesn't matter, then why do the Weisco MLS gaskets leak within the first 15 seconds of operation? I have to confess I don't know that the MLS will fail if installed in outer space, but in my garage the performance was not at all satisfactory.

Contrary to your assessment, Weisco specify a RA of 50 for adequate performance.

Jim

 

[Nessism]

Ok so according to you , surface preparation doesn't matter, then why do the Weisco MLS gaskets leak within the first 15 seconds of operation? I have to confess I don't know that the MLS will fail if installed in outer space, but in my garage the performance was not at all satisfactory.

Contrary to your assessment, Weisco specify a RA of 50 for adequate performance.

Jim

I have no idea where you are coming from Jim. Where did I say that surface preparation/finish doesn’t matter? Don’t you remember my thread about decking the head/cylinder? I’m the guy that I took my head and cylinder to get them refinished because I didn’t want a leak. I had both the cylinder head and block on my 1000 engine cut to clean up the surface.

Regarding MLS gaskets in general, they are very common these days and Suzuki even updated many of our GS head gaskets to MLS style. I have no idea why you had problems on your engine. One thing I’ve learned is that surface finish IS important for MLS gaskets, and so is flatness. Composite type gaskets, according to the machinist that cut my engine parts, have a better ability to conform to imperfections so that type if gasket might be better for many people. I have no idea why your engine leaked and make no guesses.

 

[posplayr]

Ed,
In the most specific terms I can articulate:

What are the requirements for surface finish/flatness for successful employment of Weisco MLS head gaskets.

Weisco say RA 50.

APE(Big Jay says make it "pretty")

Schnitz says BS.

Please stay on point. There is oil squirting out of someone's head.
Jim

 

[Nessism]

Ed,
In the most specific terms I can articulate:

What are the requirements for surface finish/flatness for successful employment of Weisco MLS head gaskets.

Weisco say RA 50.

APE(Big Jay says make it "pretty")

Schnitz says BS.

Please stay on point. There is oil squirting out of someone's head.
Jim

Jim,

You are a smart guy but you missed the point of Big Jays comments. Go back and read them. I tried to explain to you what his point was but you won't listen.

 

[posplayr]

Ed,
Jay did not answer and neither did Schnitz any question related to the Weisco head gasket and
Ed, It really defies comprehension what you are contributing to this thread(other than being argumentative). If you want to contribute please persuade Big Jay or anybodyelse that sells these kits to offer some recommendations on preparation to the layman.

As best I can tell (And I'm a smart guy according to Ed) if you order a Weisco Big block kit you are well advised to dump the MLS gasket.

I know Terry has been successful with it the MLS after having similar problems but he is an NHRA title holder and I don't put myself in that class.

Pos

 

[Nessism]

Ed,
Jay did not answer and neither did Schnitz any question related to the Weisco head gasket and
Ed, It really defies comprehension what you are contributing to this thread(other than being argumentative). If you want to contribute please persuade Big Jay or anybodyelse that sells these kits to offer some recommendations on preparation to the layman.

As best I can tell (And I'm a smart guy according to Ed) if you order a Weisco Big block kit you are well advised to dump the MLS gasket.

I know Terry has been successful with it the MLS after having similar problems but he is an NHRA title holder and I don't put myself in that class.

Pos

I bought an Athena GS1000G gasket kit for my GS1000S, because it came with a MLS head gasket. I didn't want the old style composite gasket. Of course this is an Athena gasket and not a Weisco gasket but personally, I have no reason to distrust MLS.

Regarding your engine, did you measure the surface flatness of the head and cylinder block? Did you lay it flat on top of a granite surface plate and look for daylight between the head/cylinder and block? Did you have your head and block surfaced to make sure it's flat?

Again I say, MLS gaskets require a flat head and cylinder. I don't know what "flat" means in actual measurements but my estimation is less than .003" out.

Regarding my not contributing to this thread, since when did it become your thread dedicated to weisco head gaskets? Oh, never mind...:-$

 

[posplayr]

I assembled with wiseco pistons and gaskets. The gasket is a multi layer with no o'rings etc. Assembled and torqued everything carefully (obviously not careful enough) Started the motor, and almost right away had oil leaking badly along front of cylinder.

Ed above is the topic of the thread; What to do about a leaking 1166 kit MLS gasket from Wiesco.

Given my horiffic experience with it and the total lack of dealer support I would ditch the Weisco MLS stainless steel gasket pronto.:-&

 

[Nessism]

Ed above is the topic of the thread; What to do about a leaking 1166 kit MLS gasket from Wiesco.

Given my horiffic experience with it and the total lack of dealer support I would ditch the Weisco MLS stainless steel gasket pronto.:-&

My bad on that point. I apologize. This thread IS about weisco MLS head gaskets.

BTW, the way that MLS gasket is sticking up in that photo you posted, looks like a POS part.

 

[posplayr]

Ed,
BTW my cylinders were bored and checked by the same shop that decked the head. The MLS leaked first time and even after three more retorques at 5 ft-lbs increments.

The composite gasket (with copper coat) sealed the first time with out a drop.

What does that say?

Jim

 

[almarconi]

Hey guys..if your going to argue at least spell the name correctly its

Wiseco NOT Wiesco