NOS Jardine 4-1 vs Vance & Hines - which one is best?

[Chuck78]

I am looking at buying a used chrome Vance and Hines 12009 upswept street pipe for my 77 GS750, but have talked to a few people who thought that other systems like the Marving flat collector 4-1 (italian) and others that are all out of production to my knowledge seem to give a lot more mid range for the street than the V&H. for new pipes, the V&H and MAC are the only ones readily available unless I want to pay international shipping on a Marving or adapt a first gen GSXR or 2nd gen GS750 exhaust to fit.

My buddy at the local vintage japanese mc parts warehouse summed it up that he didn't like v&h pipes as much because they are more of a drag racing oriented company, and their pipes are tuned for high rpm racing purposes.

I am looking at the used V&H pipe for $200 with a little rust, or a NOS in box but scratched up and slightly rusted Jardine 4-1 that has a similar upswept megaphone muffler design, but the 4 head pipes are all individual and clamp into the collector.

Any ideas on which pipe is going to perform better on the street? Also, any feedback on the tone that the muffler and baffle produce?The chrome v&h pipe is going to look better for sure, but I was thinking about fitting a titanium GSXR muffler on anyways if I got anything other than the V&H.

Jardine:

Vance and Hines 12009 (new/stock photo from v&h):

 

[Steel Toed Tank]

I wouldn't go for a MAC or V&H myself.

The bottom priced stuff is usually the bottom quality stuff too.

When I upgrade pipes it will be Hindle, Jardine, Supertrapp, Bassini, Yosh or, money and availability permitting one of those very sweet MotoGPwerks Yosh replicas.

All my pipes are stock now so I have no experience with any of the brands listed on GS's, but if I was you I'd be on that Jardine like Rock Hudson on a boy scout!

 

[tkent02]

If you don't buy the Jardine will you please hook me up with contact info?

 

[Chuck78]

So i take it the jardine is much better qaulity than a v&h??? Looks like the same muffler design, doesnt seem to be much different on the pipes and collector either. Hmmm.....

 

[Nessism]

 

[TeamDar]

Where did this chart come from and what is a GS100EX? You have to wonder about the accuracy of the results when they can't even get the model correct...

 

[harley10]

It is the GS1100ex

 

[Nessism]

Yes, GS1100EX. I made the chart from data published in an old Motorcyclist magazine (my bad on the title). Test run by Joe Milton, who knows his $hit. The point being the stock exhaust is pretty close to optimized for a stock engine.

 

[TeamDar]

Did they run the stock exhaust with the airbox lid off and 6 sizes over main jet? If so then anybody with a stock 1100 should do that and pick up some power. Joe Minton is the man. I used to enjoy his articles. Dar

 

[Chuck78]

I would figure that if they just swapped the exhausts of different varieties and different baffles/amounts of restriction, then the bike would not be optimally jetted for every single muffler design, therefore that chart may be a little deceptive. The Vance and Hines ranks pretty low there, makes me want to spend the $330 for the scratched up Jardine, but too bad the Jardine is all black... SuperTrapp would be awesome, but they are impossible to find in the GS750 variety. I found one youtube video of a bike with an old Supertrapp on it, but can only find GS1000/1100 and Kawasaki or Honda Supertrapp's.

I am really wondering about that jetting thing, Vance and Hines recommends a 125 main jet on a stock GS750 with K&N filter from what I remember. $200 and chrome is swaying me towards that, but the chart is telling me Jardine... Jardine was bought by Supertrapp in 2012, but Supertrapp's website only allows you to search back to 1986 for Suzuki's...

 

[Chuck78]

Also, I am really wondering if, based on the chart, that the V&H pipe is less restrictive - hence the lack of midrange power, but good peak power? That could be adjusted by re-working the baffle or making a custom baffle, which I have already done for my MAC 4-1. I do like a loud deep rumbly and aggressive sound, however... the megaphone setup might be the best for that. I am at a loss for what to do... I am also thinking maybe I could swap a Harris Titanium GSXR muffler can onto the V&H setup for a pretty trick look and a lighter, shorter muffler.

Anyone else have experience with the Jardine setup? How does it sound???? $200 or maybe a lower offer ($175?) for the V&H, or $330 for the black scratched up NOS Jardines??? I didn't ever consider V&H a "low end" exhaust, MAC maybe, not so much V&H. Verdict???

 

[Nessism]

Hey man, it's just an exhaust. If it's in good condition and you need one, then pick it up. Splitting hairs about minor power advantages between different pipes is relatively unimportant on an old bike. The chart above suggests there isn't much power to be had anyway unless you make more extensive mods to the engine.

 

[Chuck78]

Bassani, Yoshi, Kerker, Hindle, Supertrapp... Those are all long out of production for the first Gen GS750 and GS850 '79-81, and very rare to come by used... Those Marving flat collector 4-1's have been stated by a few GSR members fortunate to have them to have a lot better midrange than a Yoshi pipe, and much better clearance. They can be had for $423 plus shipping from eXactRep in England:
http://www.exactrep.com/acatalog/SUZUKI--Marving--4-1--RACING--Complete-Exhaust-System-1000R.html, so I am assuming about $500. I am leaning towards the Vance and Hines at present due to being chrome and $130 less ($200 vs $330), but still wanting some feedback on the Jardine sound...

$500-ish new shipped for this Marving racing 4-1 setup (the Marving "Master" street muffler looks just like the V&H and Jardine megaphone mufflers but with the flat 4-1 collector still)

I will be looking for a vintage Supertrapp exhaust, but eventually if I could ever afford it, one of these Marving 4/1 Racing pipes will be the ticket for me.

 

[bobgroger]

If you don't buy the Jardine will you please hook me up with contact info?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Jardine...Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c5f80c000&vxp=mtr

he has 4 left, has had these listed for months.

 

[GSXR7ED]

Ed's "T" has a Vance & Hines & I Love It!!!

Ed's "T" has a Vance & Hines & I Love It!!!

Yep,

I installed these babies on Saturday (29Mar) and went for a ride today. You may notice, I also put Progressive Shocks on too...the originals had to go.

A noticeable increase in power and sound has me sold on V&H. (US-$317.00 from Z1) (Shocks US$275.00 from Z1)

I increased the Main Jets from stock 112.5 to 117.5--worked out perfect!!!

Look at the old pipes! What a difference a 4-1 makes!!!

Ed

 

[850 Combat]

One of my best friend's older brother was a welder at Jardine, making motorcycle headers in the mid 70s. He later became a coke addict and died young.

 

[Guest]

One of my best friend's older brother was a welder at Jardine, making motorcycle headers in the mid 70s. He later became a coke addict and died young.

My friend's brother was hooked on the Yosh pipe, couldn't weld to save his life. He died young, making about 91 decibels @ 96hp. Tragic really.

 

[Guest]

The biggest advantage for the V&H or the Jardine is the weight reduction. No idea on the other pipes of what their weights are. Reducing the weight betters the HP to weight ratio. Performance wise, gonna gain some where, gonna lose somewhere. IF you aren't racing etc, it's not that big an issue.

 

[bobgroger]

Ed, how is the noise level with the V&H? Is it quiet enough to not attract attention in normal riding? Is the baffle removable so you can adjust the stuffing quantity? I had a Kerker on my Kaw 900 back in the day and the constant drone was annoying. I like the look of the 4-1, but don't want LOUD.

 

[GSXR7ED]

V&h 4-1

V&h 4-1

Ed, how is the noise level with the V&H? Is it quiet enough to not attract attention in normal riding? Is the baffle removable so you can adjust the stuffing quantity? I had a Kerker on my Kaw 900 back in the day and the constant drone was annoying. I like the look of the 4-1, but don't want LOUD.

The sound is not as loud as I expected when I first start her up...she does purr...drivers do notice me...but the pipes aren't extremely loud like the young kids like these days.

I'm not into bringing much attention to myself while riding. But these new pipes give me good confidence through traffic. I make myself known whereas before, the dual OEM pipes I had did not deliver what these babies do.

I ride with more of a proud feeling now...if I want traffic to KNOW I am within their area, just a twist of the wrist gets me their attention.


Ed