Now that I have LED blinkers: strange electrical phenomenon

[gert du prez]

Hi,

have installed 4 LED blinkers but not working properly...

1) OLD situation: 4 normal working blinkers

changed the rear lamps to LED blinkers and installed a LED flasher
--> turned out OK

2) new situation: also installed LED front blinkers. Right blinkers (front and rear) are working perfectly, but on the left side only the FRONT blinker is working.

When I install the old lamp in the front rear, the blinker is working again.
When I switch the rear LED lights left to right, then again the right side (front and left) is working properly...left side only front is working.

So all the led lights are OK, only the left rear is not blinking when I use the LED lamp...

What is going on ? has anyone ever experienced this strange phenomenon ? have no idea on how to tackle this...

 

[silverbullet132]

you need a digital signal relay, or load resistors

 

[cowboyup3371]

Are all of the lamps grounded properly?

 

[GS450]

Are you using load resistors? They can be had cheap on ebay. 1.30 each. search "signal LED resistor hyperflash" They are plug n play and sit in line in the headlamp can. They can get hot so make sure they are insulated (not electrical tape due to melting mess). OR a wire is connected to the wrong pole. Good luck.

 

[Steve]

you need a digital signal relay, or load resistors

Are you using load resistors?

Guys, you need to go back and re-read his first post.

Here, I'll save you the effort of scrolling back and highlight the important parts:

Hi,

have installed 4 LED blinkers but not working properly...

1) OLD situation: 4 normal working blinkers

changed the rear lamps to LED blinkers and installed a LED flasher
--> turned out OK ...

Gert, based on this statement, I do have to ask though ...

When I install the old lamp in the front rear, the blinker is working again.

Just which one is the "front rear"? :-k

I'm with cowboy on this one. When you see some really strange stuff in the electrical department, check your grounds.

.

 

[gert du prez]

sorry for the mis information (English <> default language)


LEFT REAR with OLD LAMP = OK
LEFT REAR with LED lamp = not OK

LEFT REAR LED LAMP to RIGHT REAR = RIGHT side still working properly...

I'll re-check the ground wires...will be coming back with further info...

 

[GelandeStrasse]

With flasher units it is usually a current flow issue ie. the flasher unit needs enough current to make it work.
Use a step by step approach starting from the beginning again.
Put every thing back as it was and see if that works. This will eliminate any wiring/ground issues.
Now start adding new stuff again and work from there.....

 

[gert du prez]

ok, based upon your posts...I have further information:

right rear: volts measured when blinking: jumps from 0 to +10.41 V

left rear: volts measured when blinking: jumps from 0 to -10.41 V (minus !!!)

and LED is a 'one-way direction' so I think that is the reason...
Still have no idea why the left rear ground is acting as an 'live wire' and
the so-called active wire as a ground ?

And now the big question: do I solve my issue by switching the two wires in the left rear blinker ?

 

[cowboyup3371]

I believe it will fix it.

 

[gert du prez]

Despite the encouraging words of Mr. Steve who helped me and tried to push me in finding the root cause, I sort of took the lazy route and switched the
left rear blinker black wire with its black/white striped ground wire.

Now everything works regarding the blinkers...! jihaaa!

and indeed, no, have not really really found what the issue was...

As I will never sell my beloved bike, no next owner will be bothered

 

[Steve]

Would you be willing to do one final test? Just for "fun and games"?

Without changing ANY wiring, just switch the two LED 'bulbs' at the rear from side to side.

If they still work as expected, there is something screwy with the wiring of the left rear socket. However, if you now have problems again, you have a screwy bulb. Swap them back to where they work and go for a ride.

.

 

[GateKeeper]

LED bulbs will sometimes only work when put in one way...and not the other....

I changed all the interior bulbs on my SUV, and some I had to turn 180 to make them work, could be the same thing here ? by switching the wires around ?

.

 

[Steve]

Understandable, when a bulb can be inserted in more than one way, but you would think that a tail light would always be wired the same way.

.

 

[gert du prez]

Ok Steve, here we go...

1) turned the rear LED bulbs over a 180 degree angle but kept left and right buld where these were: STILL WORKING

2) switched left rear LED bulb to right and vice versa: STILL WORKING

so that does not change my new 'rule': left rear blinker is powered by the ground...(boy, does that sound strange)

 

[Steve]

Thanks for humoring me, Gert.

That just proves that electrons are color-blind and really don't care what color the wire is that they are running through.

As long as the little pin in the center of the socket is live, it doesn't matter what color wire feeds it.

Also leads me to think that there is something screwy in the main harness.

.

 

[AirCooled]

If you'll listen to some info from the "Peanut Gallery", an incandescent bulb with a single terminal doesn't "care" which direction the electrons flow from. It is in fact simply a piece of Tungsten that acts as a resistor, and as result, gets hot enough to "Glow". As we all(should) know, in a 12V Negative ground system, electrons actually flow from "ground" to positive. So the original incandescent bulb doesn't care where the power comes from, as long as the cicuit is closed. An LED on the other hand, does care. By it's very definition "L"ight "E"mitting "D"iode(LED), by it's very nature only allows electrons to flow in ONE direction. The whole purpose of a DIODE is that, allow power to flow in one direction only. LED's are a byproduct of this. There are many diodes on your motrcycle, and your car, for that matter. There are in fact, FOUR(4) in your Regulator Rectifier. It's called a Full Wave Bridge Rectifier. The charging system utilizes this arrangement to convert AC current to DC current. The correct terminology for this is Rectifiying the power. If you Google a full wave bridge rectifier, you can see the arrangement.
I certainly hope I didn't step on any toes here. Just my 2 cents worth. Which I believe are now worth 17 cents, if you recycle them for the copper! Of course, those of us with stockpiles of pennies are patiently awaiting Congress to take up the current Itiration of the bill, allowing an amendment to make this legal. The Copper Penny Lobby is currently penniless!

 

[Steve]

If you'll listen to some info from the "Peanut Gallery", an incandescent bulb with a single terminal doesn't "care" which direction the electrons flow from. It is in fact simply a piece of Tungsten that acts as a resistor, and as result, gets hot enough to "Glow". As we all(should) know, in a 12V Negative ground system, electrons actually flow from "ground" to positive. So the original incandescent bulb doesn't care where the power comes from, as long as the cicuit is closed. An LED on the other hand, does care. By it's very definition "L"ight "E"mitting "D"iode(LED), by it's very nature only allows electrons to flow in ONE direction. The whole purpose of a DIODE is that, allow power to flow in one direction only. LED's are a byproduct of this. There are many diodes on your motrcycle, and your car, for that matter. There are in fact, FOUR(4) in your Regulator Rectifier. It's called a Full Wave Bridge Rectifier. The charging system utilizes this arrangement to convert AC current to DC current. The correct terminology for this is Rectifiying the power. If you Google a full wave bridge rectifier, you can see the arrangement.
I certainly hope I didn't step on any toes here. Just my 2 cents worth. Which I believe are now worth 17 cents, if you recycle them for the copper! Of course, those of us with stockpiles of pennies are patiently awaiting Congress to take up the current Itiration of the bill, allowing an amendment to make this legal. The Copper Penny Lobby is currently penniless!

Mostly good information there, except that there are SIX diodes in our rectifiers and the pennies are only copper-clad aluminum, making them worth considerably LESS than 2 cents.

.

 

[AirCooled]

Mostly good information there, except that there are SIX diodes in our rectifiers and the pennies are only copper-clad aluminum, making them worth considerably LESS than 2 cents.

.

Steve,

I will have to take your word on the correct diode count for the GS series of rectifiers, as I am a NEW owner of Suzuki M/C's I currently have two, both puchased within the last 3 months.
Now......... as for the pennies, it's true what you say about the value of what's in circulation TODAY. Us Hopeful Hoarders have literally TONS of pre-1970s stocks. MOST ARE FOUND ON THE GROUND!

I thank you for correcting my errors, and I've now learned even MORE from this site!
By the way, anytime you feel like correcting me, please feel free, I learn more from reading your answers to posts than just about anywhere else on the web!

 

[rustybronco]

Copper clad zink.

 

[trippivot]

With flasher units it is usually a current flow issue ie. the flasher unit needs enough current to make it work.
Use a step by step approach starting from the beginning again.
Put every thing back as it was and see if that works. This will eliminate any wiring/ground issues.
Now start adding new stuff again and work from there.....

let's get the basics correct!! ok?

old style FLASHER units need a specific RESISTANCE to operate -- signal just lights up? no flash? higher wattage incandescent bulb fixes that. more resistance -- test my theory put 3 bulbs in the circuit and watch it flash fast!!

LED flashers are necessary and you are going to need 2 of them L and R and keep the sides isolated away from each other and fully remove the old flasher unit from the wiring.