Oil Cooler Adaptor Feedback Needed

[Nessism]

Oil pressure sensor adapter plate has a boss that I tapped 1/8" pipe thread (the largest size fitting that will fit). Bought a small oil pressure sensor from Napa to replace the large stock one. Going to use this port to return oil to the engine after it goes through the cooler.

Modified a hydraulic fitting and tapped with 1/4" pipe threads for the oil feed into the cooler. The head of the hydraulic fitting comes within 1/2 mm of the oil feed in the engine so there will be some internal leakage - not all the oil will flow into the cooler which I think is fine.

My question is with regards to the difference in the pipe fitting sizes, will the smaller port on the return side be a major restriction in the oiling system? I'll be happy if 1/2 of the oil flow goes through the cooler but I don't want to create a huge restriction or the engine may oil starve since my pickup fitting will be blocking the oil feed port in the engine.

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

 

[Tom MLC]

Nessism, the only thing I can say about this is, it's so simple someone must have tried it before. I have often thought about this very idea.

If it works, you better start mass production.

 

[posplayr]

Nessism

Nessism

Well you are going out a little on thin ice here. 8-[

It seems though that you will just have to watch how much oil pressure you have at the forward gallery. I would measure it before and after the cooler modification. You are going to be putting a restriction in the lubrication path by directing the primary flow to through a line to the cooler and then back and then finally through your little return 1/8" restriction. Is the little restriction significant relative to the lines and cooler? I don't know.

If you have a oil pressure gauge that you can install at the right side oil gallery, and if it the pressure is high enough, then you have enough flow. It it is too low then your might be restricted (or not enough pressure from the pump).

If your gallery pressure is too low then you would probably need to compare the pressure between the filter cover and the front gallery to see how much drop you are getting. If the filter cover pressure is low then a new pump of GS750 gears might be in order (do they work on the 850??)
Measure it and make sure. Only one guage or possibly two would be required.

The other thing that worries me here is that you are trying to divert only a portion of the oil to the cooler. From a fluid dynamics standpoint, the only way you are going to have any flow going through the cooler is if you maintain a differential pressure between the oil coming into the center fitting and the oil exiting from the 1/8" fitting. If you are leaking too much from the center fitting, then you just are not going to get much differential pressure across the 1 inch between ports. In other words, the flow through the cooler is going to drop off rapidly for a small change leakage flow and it will probably not be obvious from the pressures (assuming a low restriction through the cooler).

You want a low pressure drop across the cooler and lines with all the flow going through it. And if you vent across the inlets with leakage, then you are going to have a difficult time even maintaining that required pressure differential. Bottom line you need to be able to verify the flow through the coolerer make sure that all of it goes through.

I'll think about it some more, but If I were in your shoes I would be getting that special $100 fitting and push all the oil through the cooler. My 83 GS1100ED top end oiler solution with the fitting was only for an oiller and I will get guaranteed flow just based on the pressure under the cover regardless of any leaks. Not so with your situation.

Posplayr

 

[Nessism]

Posplyr,

It would be easy to get the pick up feed right down on top of the feed port in the engine so 100% oil flow will go through the cooler. My concern is the small size of that return fitting. My thinking is that by allowing some internal leakage, where only a portion of the oil will go to the cooler, then the internal oil flow needs of the engine will be met no matter what. Problem is, as you noted, unless I get a pressure differential across the cooler, it won't flow.

The way I've got the pickup set up now a good portion of the oil is going to have to flow into the cooler, I just don't know how much. I was planning on installing a pressure gauge on the oil galley to monitor what is going on before and after.

Plan B is to just make a brand new adapter plate from scratch. A block of aluminum with some holes through it wouldn't take a whole lot of effort. The reason I like the stock oil pressure sensor plate is because it has a nice o-ring seal on it, something that will be impossible to duplicate in my garage.

Thanks for your response.

 

[kichigai]

Check out Katmans tech page. He has a tips on making a home made adaptors to hook up a oil gauge. Maybe this will work for you. Good luck.

http://www.robwilton.com/xtech.html

 

[Nessism]

Check out Katmans tech page. He has a tips on making a home made adaptors to hook up a oil gauge. Maybe this will work for you. Good luck.

http://www.robwilton.com/xtech.html

GS1100 has a different oiling system. Can not be compared to an 8V engine.

The more I think about this issue the more I don't like the mismatched port fitting sizes. The pressure sensor plate has a boss, which I tapped, only there is no way to go larger than 1/8" NTP. What was Suzuki thinking when they changed the casting to add the boss?

Going to build a different adapter plate out of a chunk of aluminum so the port sizes will be the same size. No sense with doing something that is supposed to enhance durability...but could compromise it.

 

[posplayr]

Nessism

Nessism

I understand why you are trying to provide a bypass of the oil cooler, but since it is difficult to measure the flow to the cooler, it will be very difficult to adjust the flow to the cooler.
You could screw down the center tap to reduce the bypass flow which would in theory reduce your operating temperature (i.e. more cooler flow) but at the same time drop your oil pressure.
So what do you want lower temperature or more pressure ? With this configuration you likely can't get both, unless the 1/8" is not really that much restriction but that was the original question as I recall.

I agree stay with the tried and true custom plate.
Posplayr

 

[Nessism]

Went for broke and drilled the return port boss on the factory adaptor plate for 1/4" NTP. The fit is VERY tight but I managed it. Now I can run equal size feed and return ports into the cooler.

Now I need to figure out out what sized cooler to use and how to mount it. Noticed some people feed from the top and others from the bottom. Top feed might be easier but need to take a close look. Thinking about routing the lines around the right side of the engine to keep clear of the valve cover but not sure.

 

[Planecrazy]

One of our Aussie members (Terry) did a nice adapter that he sold to several other members some time ago. I believe he still makes the adapters, though I haven't seen him on the site in some time. If nothing else you should be able to see pics of what he did as well as commentary on the mod...

Click Me For That Thread!

Regards,

 

[195suz]

Just bought one terrys adapters pretty nice 105.00 with shipping. Cant find his e-mail right now if I find it I'll post it

 

[Nessism]

There are several references to the “Terry adaptor” in the archives. I decided to do my own because it seemed to be a pretty interesting project – particularly since the stock adaptor plate already has a boss on the casting.

The cost doing it my way is pretty cheap: the Napa oil pressure switch was $12, the hydraulic fitting was $11, and the AN fittings and T are about $2.50 each. One thing I like about using the stock adaptor plate is that it has an o-ring seal on the bottom; the Terry adaptor uses a gasket if I’m not mistaken.

I don’t fault anyone purchasing the premade adaptor. I had to drill and tap the stock adaptor plate, as well as modify the hydraulic fitting and copper sealing washer. It gives me satisfaction though in doing it myself – I’m funny that way.

Now to figure out what cooler to get and how to mount it…

 

[Planecrazy]

There are several references to the ?Terry adaptor? in the archives. I decided to do my own because it seemed to be a pretty interesting project ? particularly since the stock adaptor plate already has a boss on the casting.

The cost doing it my way is pretty cheap: the Napa oil pressure switch was $12, the hydraulic fitting was $11, and the AN fittings and T are about $2.50 each. One thing I like about using the stock adaptor plate is that it has an o-ring seal on the bottom; the Terry adaptor uses a gasket if I?m not mistaken.

I don?t fault anyone purchasing the premade adaptor. I had to drill and tap the stock adaptor plate, as well as modify the hydraulic fitting and copper sealing washer. It gives me satisfaction though in doing it myself ? I?m funny that way.

Now to figure out what cooler to get and how to mount it?

I wasn't suggesting you just abandon your work and buy one of his ... I just figured that you might benefit from any of the input regarding function. I happen to think you've done a nice job so far with your project, and I agree that you can't beat the satisfaction of "doing it yourself!"

Regards,

 

[posplayr]

Looks like you still have plenty of meat around the return fitting

Looks like you still have plenty of meat around the return fitting

Yes it is a little tight but with the loss through the lines/cooler, the return loss of the fitting at this size is probably negligible. I think I would still drill a hole through (the side) of your center fitting to provide a failsafe (maybe) in case the cooler gets plugged. I can measure the bypass hole in the GS1150 cover that provides this same function. Then you can just cinch down the center fitting and you will know the size of the bybass does not rely on leakage flow but rather the size of the hole you drill.

Posplayr

 

[Jd Powell]

I am working on routing my cooler lines also. I have an 80 1000G (8v). I also have a spare motor from an '82 1100GL (8v). I had originally purchased one of terry's adapters, as the 1000 doesn't have any boss to tap. On the 1100 motor however... The oil pressure plate is the same type as the one nessism shows. And there is a similar untapped boss on the front of the oil filter cover. I think I've seen some threads where riders used this boss to hook up a temp gauge.

So is there any chance I could pick up the oil from the plate behind the cylinders, and return it at the filter cover?

also I have some confusion about a few setups I have seen:

1) Some of the adapters picking up and returning the oil at the pressure plate seem to divert all the flow first to the cooler then back to the main galley. This seems as though it would take a while for the top-end to get lubrication upon startup.

2)What's this talk about needing a restrictor in the oil path to get it to flow through the cooler? Shouldn't we just take the oil from a high pressure area, and dump it back at a low pressure area?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

 

[posplayr]

16V v.s 8V Oil Coolers

16V v.s 8V Oil Coolers

First a couple of words, the 16V motors and the 8 valve motors have some important differences. So when reading anything make sure you understand which motors the author is talking about.

I am working on routing my cooler lines also. I have an 80 1000G (8v). I also have a spare motor from an '82 1100GL (8v). I had originally purchased one of terry's adapters, as the 1000 doesn't have any boss to tap. On the 1100 motor however... The oil pressure plate is the same type as the one nessism shows. And there is a similar untapped boss on the front of the oil filter cover. I think I've seen some threads where riders used this boss to hook up a temp gauge.
.

I think all of the 82-83 GS1100E 16V engines have an oil temp gauge that has the senser in that 45 degree tapped hole.

So is there any chance I could pick up the oil from the plate behind the cylinders, and return it at the filter cover?
.

You would need to check your manual to see how the lubrication system is plumbed, but if it is like the 16V motors the filter cover is upstream (closer to the pump) than the rear plate. If you got any flow from the rear cover to the filter cover it would probably be reverse of what you intend (i.e. from filter cover to the rear cover)I guess it might be possible to push flow from the filter cover out to a cooler and return to the rear plate, but there would be no way to control how much went to the cooler so this would be a bad idea.

also I have some confusion about a few setups I have seen:

1) Some of the adapters picking up and returning the oil at the pressure plate seem to divert all the flow first to the cooler then back to the main galley. This seems as though it would take a while for the top-end to get lubrication upon startup.
.

Yea no WOT startups

2)What's this talk about needing a restrictor in the oil path to get it to flow through the cooler? Shouldn't we just take the oil from a high pressure area, and dump it back at a low pressure area?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

This is how the GS1100E 16V cases were built (to provide provision for an oil cooler) and later the GS1150's came stock (with an oil cooler). I dont think it applies to the 8V motors.

There are tapoff ports in the GS1100/GS1150 cases on either side of the oil filter which allow all of the oil flow from the pump to be directed away from the filter out a banjo fitting (right side) to a cooler and return to another banjo fitting port (left side) to get to the oil filter. The output port can be completely plugged (to redirect all) or the GS1150 cover was made to redirect most (probably 95%) to the cooler but allow just a little to go to the oil filter just in case the cooler became clogged.Apparently most of this plumbing only applies to the GS1100E/GS1150 16 v motors (TSCC).

On the 8V motors the only way to capture all of the flow is at the back plate center port which I am assuming is like the 16V motors is flowing from the the pump, through the filter to this back plate. (this the the 16V so not sure about 8 V )The special 8V fitting is to capture all (or most) of the center port flow, route it to the cooler and then return to the same plate. Again, this is not nessesary to install a cooler on a 16V motor.

I think this is a pretty good summary, but I have no problems with anybody adding to or correcting me.

On my 83 GS1100 I will have both cooler (plumbing on the front near the filter cover) and top end oiler (connected at the rear plate). The top end oiler is typically routed from the rear with a supplied custom back plate. On the cheaper one I bought, the plate is really pretty but it requires getting rid of both idiot light and temperature gauge (I knew this when I bought it). So I fabricated a T fitting to use the OEM plate but T off to add the oiler on the 45 degree port.With this setup I could retain both the center port (stock idiot light) and the stock temp sender but feed the top end oiler. No return path required as the oil return through the head/cylinders.

I dont know if you can do that on the 8V motors.

Posplayr

 

[Jd Powell]

Thanks posplayr, that pretty much clears it all up!:-D

 

[posplayr]

GS1100E Top End Oiler Fittings

GS1100E Top End Oiler Fittings

FYI for reference you can see what I was going through working on my questions and sorting this out. It was all in recent memory

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=120828

Posplayr

 

[Nessism]

There are some 8V oil cooler setups that grab oil flow from the adapter plate in the back and dump it back into the oil filter cover after it goes through the cooler (robertrob has a setup like this). I was considering trying this but decided against it since oil flow is taken away from the ports leading to the transmission and head, and bypassed over to the oil filter. Maybe this is not an issue as the engine has excess volume? Not sure. Most of the more well known oil coolers, like the lockhart, take the full oil volume and send it through the cooler. This way, the full volume will be available for the engine use after it comes back to the adapter plate. Again, not sure this much volume is needed...just erroring on the conservative side.

Edit: After reading Posplay's comments about the oil flow it seems the oil flows from front to back, not the other way around like I mentioned above; plenty of oil should flow to the engine thus my concern is unfounded. Posplay's new concern is that unfiltered oil will be circulated through the engine since it's bypassing the oil filter.

 

[posplayr]

Nessism

Nessism

It would be interesting to see a 8V lubrications schematic, but if it is like the 16V I don't see how oil can go from the back plate back to the oil filter cover?8-[

Here are three alternatives in the link.

a.) The first is a standard 8V representations (similar to yours).

b.) The second as you described which would mean that the pressure on return after going through both a filter and a cooler is still at pump pressure??? Not sure this can work.

c.) This is what I suggest is probably really going on and as you describe is only grabbing part of the flow from the filter, but also means that the flow through the cooler never sees the flow through the filter. It also means if you change filter type, you could change the flow distribution between the two paths (i.e. cooler path and filter path). This is what I meant would be difficult to control.The worst thing is if this is really what is going on is that if you ever get some metal in your engine, you are likely to destroy not only the pump but also the rest of the motor as there is a low impedance path directly around the filter.

I think option 1 is the best as all of the oil goes through the filter and then the bulk through the cooler. A small amount can be tapped off to by pass the cooler but it all still goes through the filter.

http://www.posplayr.100megsfree3.com/gs750/8V_Cooler_Configs.pdf

I don't own an 8V motor but if my theory is correct then there may be some ticking time bomb 8V motors out there.

Posplayr

 

[Nessism]

Great explaination Posplayr. I just assumed the oil flow was from the back plate to the oil filter cover plate, not the other way around. I agree with you that most likely it's the other way around. BTW, I saved your pdf to my computer. Great stuff.