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Oil cooler ports, face up or down?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Tarbash 27
  • Start date Start date
T

Tarbash 27

Guest
Im putting a setrab oil cooler on my GS750/1085 project bike. Im wondering If I should mount it with the inlet and outlet ports face up or face down. Im sure there are pro's and con's of each way.

Face up would
Would hold the oil in there when bike is off
would only flow when it is completely full
make the lines a bit more difficult to route

Face down would

drain back all the oil to the motor when off
does not have to be full to flow
may cause an air pocket
make the oil lines easier to route

???????

Im thinking face down like the gs's that have factory oil coolers on them.
 
They won't drain with the ports on the bottom once everything is primed. (I forgot about that when I removed mine the other night and then they drained.)
 
Yeah, now that I think how the sytem flows, your right on that.
 
I'm face down

I'm face down

Face up would
Would hold the oil in there when bike is off
would only flow when it is completely full
make the lines a bit more difficult to route
Click to expand...
Very expensive 120 degree fittings.

Face down would
drain back all the oil to the motor when off
does not have to be full to flow
may cause an air pocket
make the oil lines easier to route
Click to expand...
Can use cheap OEM banjo fittings


You can buy one of these cheap and even reuse the old fittings if replacing with new braided hose. I bit of a PITA to remove the OEM hoses but it can be done and save quite a bit of cash.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=130435

I used Paragon for all my hose and fittings. Great friendly support.

http://www.paragonperformance.com/

Pos
 
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Tarbash 27 said:
Im putting a setrab oil cooler on my GS750/1085 project bike. Im wondering If I should mount it with the inlet and outlet ports face up or face down. Im sure there are pro's and con's of each way.

Face up would
Would hold the oil in there when bike is off
would only flow when it is completely full
make the lines a bit more difficult to route

Face down would

drain back all the oil to the motor when off
does not have to be full to flow
may cause an air pocket
make the oil lines easier to route

???????

Im thinking face down like the gs's that have factory oil coolers on them.
Click to expand...
Now, I have to insert something into the conversation. Here is my worry regarding the 8v motors and the oil coolers.

One: it is difficult to judge precisely how much extra oil must be placed into the system to fill the lines and cooler. One thought is to actually prime the cooler prior to installation, to assure that it is full.

Two: The 8v designs as you know, rely on the VOLUME of oil in the system to lubricate the motor adequately. The pump is low pressure, the system is HIGH VOLUME. Now, I know the roller bearings on the crank need little oil to keep lubricated, but the top end is always a worry. Should your system develop an airpocket as you suggested, does it have the pressure necessary to push oil thru the system? At an idling pressure of about a pound or less, i doubt it. If the system is not full, you may have issues with oil delivery.

I am not entirely sure how the system is set up, IE where all the ports are and what not, But I do know with the standard 8v cooler adaptor location, it is near the front of the line. If the system is not full, will oil ever make it passed the cooler without causing the pump to cavatate? I installed an oil cooler on my 8v GS1100G, and looking back on it, it really honestly didnt seem to solve anything, the bike ran no better, and really it was more of a headache than it was worth, as I constantly worried about the oiling system, battled in keeping it topped off, and if it is OVERFULL, that oil will find the weakest gasket(s) you have and work its way out. Trust me, I can speak on THAT from experience.
 
Uh Yea

Uh Yea

I thought we were talking GS1100 16V TSCC where the fittings are to branjo bolts near the oil filter cover. If 8V then the rear adapter requires special care:eek:.

On 8V IF all of the oil is captured in the rear adapter and returned, then there should be no vapor lock and the cooler should work fine without issue. I think this is what some(but not all) adapters are designed to do. The GS1100E's were designed to operate without coolers so consider coolers optional or for hotter locals.

I'm going to back out of this conversion now..............:o

Pos
 
Here's my thoughts. Im building a motor that is bored over(thinner sleeves), will have higher compression(more heat), and will be ridden alot and not afraid of redline. I plan for oil to flow out the adapter, go through the cooler, come back than hit the oil pressure switch than back into the motor. I was also thinking of hooking up the ignition to the oil switch as a safety precaution. So there will only be spark as long as theres oil pressure. I have high volume oil pump gears installed also.

Im not worried about expensive fittings, it is what it is. I will be using 1/4 npt in and out of the adapter and -6an for the cooler and lines. I will also be hooking up an oil temperature gauge.
 
What about running a pressure gauge like those available from Renobruce? That's what I plan. I have an 8v 1000 and plan on running a Lockhart off of the rear plate. I don't see why oil flow would be a problem even on the low flow system unless your oil pump is about pooched, in which case, you're screwed anyway. Cooler or not.

A pressure gauge would let you monitor the pressure at all rpm's, and the oil pressure switch and light will alert you of a catastrophic loss in pressure and flow. Even better for the safety of the engine if you hook it up to the igntion as well, though I wouldn't want my ignition to cut out passing a line of traffic on a two lane road with oncoming traffic not too far away.

Flow could be affected if you use restrictive fittings, all comes down to doing it right the first time. The Lockhart that I have causes NO restriction for a low flow system. Use your head and do things well and you won't have problems. Don't settle for what you can find if it's not what you want/need.
 
Ahh but the RenoBruce gauge is generally installed into the gallery, which is ALSO ahead in the delivery system line. And, as I have been so elequently taught, its not PRESSURE that lubricates the system. Its VOLUME. If a port passed the gallery were to become clogged, the VDO gauge is going to read that there is pressure behind it, and then soon enormous pressure behind it as the oil will have no where to go. By that time, you already have a problem. Just like the silly stock oil light. Whats it kick on at? Less than .25lbs of pressure or something? By the time that light comes on, you've got issues. I am not suggesting that this is INDEED the situation, but merely pointing out POSSIBLE issues with the set up on a low pressure motor.
 
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Well I took apart and cleaned the oil pump its perfect. I did run one of bruces pressure gauges on my 750 for the last 2 years. But I dont want it in the oil galley spot anymore. Its very easy to accidently kick it and snap it off or hit it with something. It sticks out to far. Plus my gauge went bad. The needle starts at 3 psi and wont go all the way down. There should be absolutely no or very very minor restriction in the oil cooler. I have the same size(1/4 npt) fittings going in and out. The adapter I got actually came with a 1/4 npt out and 1/8 npt return. Its an old derale adapter but I just drilled and tapped it for 1/4 npt.

I have never had my oil light come on while riding my 750. But yeah, the motor cutting out while riding could be dangerous. I should have more volume of oil flow with the oil pump gears installed.

Anyways, I think installing the cooler with ports face down will be fine. Ill just add an extra quart or whatever it needs, I'll figure it out.
 
I put an oil cooler on my 79 GS 750 L and I think Nessism or CK said just add so the oil goes just over or above the window. Works for me. I have put well over 1000 miles on it. The cooler works great. You can feel the heat pour off of the little cooler/radiator.

Good luck!

Rick
 
Tarbash 27 said:
Here's my thoughts. Im building a motor that is bored over(thinner sleeves), will have higher compression(more heat), and will be ridden alot and not afraid of redline. I plan for oil to flow out the adapter, go through the cooler, come back than hit the oil pressure switch than back into the motor. I was also thinking of hooking up the ignition to the oil switch as a safety precaution. So there will only be spark as long as theres oil pressure. I have high volume oil pump gears installed also.

Im not worried about expensive fittings, it is what it is. I will be using 1/4 npt in and out of the adapter and -6an for the cooler and lines. I will also be hooking up an oil temperature gauge.
Click to expand...

I think if you put the pressure switch in the return port you may get the light to come on at low rpm. The 8V engines have killer low oil pressure at idle when the oil is hot and thin, by all means give it a try, but know in advance that the light may be an issue.
 
Just so all of you know & can END this "Do I need to overfill my oil if I have a DOWN inlet oil cooler?" CRAP! A GSXR oil cooler, which is HUGE compared to a GS cooler, only holds about a PINT of oil at the MOST! Put the standard amount of oil in your motors & if you are FREAKING out, add an extra half quart. Ray.
 
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Sorry Josh but I forgot who started this thread. I, personally, mount all of my oil coolers with the inlets UP so the oil stays in when I shut the bike off. Suzuki does it that way too so I trust them. Ray.
 
I installed an Earl's motorcycle cooler (which is pretty large as far as coolers go) on my 850 and measured the oil volume at 6 oz including the hoses.

CoolerRH.jpg
 
rapidray said:
Sorry Josh but I forgot who started this thread. I, personally, mount all of my oil coolers with the inlets UP so the oil stays in when I shut the bike off. Suzuki does it that way too so I trust them. Ray.
Click to expand...
Oh i dont disagree with you one bit Ray, If id had my druthers, i would have installed it inlets up as well, but it simply didnt fit that way without putting the cooler almost on top of the header pipes, which in my mind would have sort of defeated the purpose, as they get rather warm :) That was on an 1100G tho, i noticed on my ES that there is much more room for the cooler. My concern was that of the already LOW pressure behind the oil, if it werent full or very close, you could cause the pump to cavatate, which would be badnews. I suppose tho, that people have been running these things for years, and I am a bit of a worry wart...lol
 
Josh, for cavitation to EVER happen on a GS1100E, you would have to be below 2 quarts of oil! Pro Stock bikes run with only 2 quarts but their pickup is re-worked. Remember this, the engine starts with the cooler empty & pushes all the air out of the system. Once that is done the air vents out the crankcase vent hole! Do yourself a favor & get the GS750 oil pump gears for your bike FIRST thing! Ray.
 
rapidray said:
Josh, for cavitation to EVER happen on a GS1100E, you would have to be below 2 quarts of oil! Pro Stock bikes run with only 2 quarts but their pickup is re-worked. Remember this, the engine starts with the cooler empty & pushes all the air out of the system. Once that is done the air vents out the crankcase vent hole! Do yourself a favor & get the GS750 oil pump gears for your bike FIRST thing! Ray.
Click to expand...
WHat year 750? I have an 80 on the bench downstairs that the top end is shot on. I dunno what from, hopefully not pump failure ( think it picked up something in the exhaust side ports, as its the only side with scored cams) Will that pump work? If so, is it drop in to the 1100E? I have to replace clutch springs soon, and was hoping to come across a welded basket too, but either way I planned on taking my clutch basket out and checking it out. If its fairly easy, I could swap the pump while i was in there...
 
 
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