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Oil issues (no, not what type)

  • Thread starter Thread starter WesV
  • Start date Start date
W

WesV

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I changed the oil and filter in my 850 about 300 miles ago with Pennzoil 10w-40 (don't say anything about the type of oil I use, that is not what this thread is about!) When I went to ride it the other day I did as I do about every 200-300 miles and checked the oil level. The level was perfect, but the color wasn't, so I decided I had better change it again. Today is is what poured out:

bikeoil.JPG


If it were a water cooled bike, first thing I would think of would be a coolant leak (head gasket or something), but as we know this isn't so next thing I thought of was the power washing I gave it about 20 miles into the oil change. Well I put the fresh oil and filter in, start it up and let it run for 2-3 minutes and darn if it didn't turn the fresh oil into the same thing in that short of time. Now I am very confused and scared to ride the bike at the moment. If it were the power washing, I would have gotten all the water out when I drained the bike of the stuff above... When I changed the oil the first time it came out nice and black, nothing odd.

Any ideas???
 
You very likely have a bad petcock.

When the vacuum diaphragm in the petcock fails, gas seeps through the vacuum port on the #2 carb and makes its way into the engine.

Replace the petcock with a new one from your favorite Suzuki parts source and forget about that particular problem for another 20 years. (Rebuild kits are shoddy and often don't work.)

(Some lunatic will come along shortly and tell you to replace the petcock with $120 contraption from Pingel that you have to remember to turn on and off every single time you ride. Ignore him. The OEM vacuum petcocks work perfectly for 20 years or so, and are reasonably cheap -- $50 - $60 every 20 years won't kill you.)

Once that's done, drain and replace the oil, ride for a short while, then repeat once or twice to get rid of the remaining gas inside the engine.

Do NOT ride the bike or attempt to start it again until this is sorted out! It's dangerous for obvious reasons, and you could cause expensive damage to your engine if the cylinder is full of gas.
 
I know about the petcock issues and this doesn't seem to be that issue. I worked on a former boss's 1100L with a bad petcock which I diagnosed and replaced. When the petcock went bad the oil pulled from the bike was still black, but smelled strongly of gas and the oil level was higher then it should have been.

None of these are the case for my bike, the oil does not have the gas odor nor does it have the feel of oil with gas in it. This is one reason I mentioned that the fluid level was right where it was supposed to be, nothing seemingly extra and no loss of gas. Besides, I can't foresee how that much gas would get in the fresh oil without me noticing it. I am fully aware you know the following, but I just want to state it out loud anyway. When the petcock fails, it goes through the vacuum port of the carbs causing gas to leak from the carbs into the cylinders, past the rings of the cool motor into the crankcase and hence oil. There was 5 minutes from the time it was drained and refilled till it was started, not enough time for the amount of gas needed to dilute it to get "drip" down. Again, the color change is another reason I am having trouble seeing it as a petcock problem, gas a clear petroleum based substance does not change the color of another petroleum unless diluted with extreme amounts.

Last reason I don't see it being the petcock, the bike still required 1/2 choke to start meaning no gas pooled in the cylinders (I cranked the bike for 10-15 seconds with no choke so the engine wouldn't start so as I could get oil into the filter before starting.) If there was gas that had leaked into the cylinders and pooled on the pistons, it would have started or backfired without the choke due to the extreme richness of the fuel to air mixture already in the cylinder.

I think I need to look for another cause... :?

Edit: (changed the routing of the leaking fuel, I knew the correct one, but had a brain fart)
 
Last edited:
Okay, so it's not the petcock... dang, thought this would be an easy one.


You're right, though -- the oil doesn't usually change color when it's diluted with gas.

The only fluids in the engine are gear oil and engine oil. Gear oil wouldn't change the color like that or even be noticeable, especially since there's only a few ounces in the bevel gears.

Also, I've seen condensation moisture in the oil build up after an engine is run in extremely cold weather in stop-n-go traffic and oil changes are neglected. This obviously doesn't apply to your situation.

So it does sort of sound like some water got in there from the pressure washing. A GS850 retains a good bit of oil in various nooks and crannies, so it would take a couple of oil changes to flush it all out. Once you get most of it out, a good long ride should evaporate any remnants, and as long as it doesn't go on until things corrode, there shouldn't be any long-term effects.

When you let a sample of the brown stuff sit a while, does it start to separate into oil and water? If it's really emulsified, try putting a little bit in the freezer and see if you start to get ice crystals.
 
how much oil are you putting in. I can't say for certain but it could have that color from being whipped up.
 
n1elkyfan said:
how much oil are you putting in. I can't say for certain but it could have that color from being whipped up.
Click to expand...

Well the oil I pulled out isn't that color from being whipped up as the bike hadn't been started in a week or some prior to today. As far as the amount, filled to the line, cranked to fill the oil filter, filled to the line again. Ran for 2 minutes and it was still fine, all in all, almost a gallon.

I just went back out and looks and it appears that the oil in the window is back to normal color. I left a little oil in the drain pan just to see what it did after a couple hours and it shows little signs of separations (looks like tiny rivers through out the oil in the drain pan) so I am definitely thinking water and imagine since it went ahead and apparently separated back out already in the bike, there might not be much left and I just need to get it good and warm on a long ride. I don't have time tonight, but I ought to get a few miles put on it tomorrow.

Thanks guys and I will let you know what happens
 
I had a small cylinder two stroke that would suffer from that same problem. It turned out the water was getting into the engine from the top. Two places on that bike, the crankcase breather hose had a crack, and the top of the block where the two halves came together the gasket had cracks in it, so water would pool on the top of the engine then seep in. Use some cheap oil to flush the block, change the oil and filter, run it for a short drive, then change it again with same cheap stuff. Repeat (go for a drive get the engine hot) drain and then you should be good. But I would refrain from power washing the engine until I found where the water was getting in.

That lovely carmel color oil comes from having water in the oil, and nothing else. Gas will not turn oil that color.
 
Water in the oil for sure.

If it were my bike I'd go buy a couple gallons of the cheapest oil you can find - Walmart Super Tech or equivalent, and run it through the engine until the stuff stops coming out frothy. And keep the pressure washer away from the bike.
 
I know my base gasket is leaking a bit, I wonder if that is where it is coming in ? :( Sounds like it is time to just regasket the whole motor... I already have the new valve cover gasket for when I do my valve adjustment, daggone and right in the prime of riding season and high fuel prices where my 3/4 ton pickup is a bit thirsty...
 
Do you take alot of short bursts where the engine can't heat up?
Don't overlook the o-ring on the starter.
 
chef1366 said:
Do you take alot of short bursts where the engine can't heat up?
Don't overlook the o-ring on the starter.
Click to expand...

It is rare that the engine is not up to operating temp by the time I am done riding but I will try to keep that in mind. I will also check the starter o-ring. Thanks
 
If their is no oil leaking out don't worry about it, Probably just condensation. & will fix itself after a good ride...
 
I agree, thats definately water in the oil. Tho water and oil will repel eachother, when put in a more or less pressure cooker like an engine, this is indeed what it would look like. The cloudiness, from my understanding is actually AIR/watervapor suspended in the oil. When heated, the water will reach boiling point, but since the steam has really nowhere to go except out the tail pipe (when it can get there) its more or less suspended in the oil. Ive personally never seen this in MOTOR oil, but at work, after the kitchen guys boil out the fryers, any water left in the bottom will sit there, even after cooking oil is poured in to the fryer. It will sit on the bottom till it reaches boiling point, and then its like Old Faithfull, and the fryer errupts. I may be concerned about pressure like that building around your gaskets, but if you've drained it a couple times, I would think that youve gotten most of it out and you'll be just fine.
 
Isn't that what the breather tube on the top of the valve cover supposed to prevent? breather tube aka vent + pressure = no boom. Right?



TheCafeKid said:
I agree, thats definately water in the oil. Tho water and oil will repel eachother, when put in a more or less pressure cooker like an engine, this is indeed what it would look like. The cloudiness, from my understanding is actually AIR/watervapor suspended in the oil. When heated, the water will reach boiling point, but since the steam has really nowhere to go except out the tail pipe (when it can get there) its more or less suspended in the oil. Ive personally never seen this in MOTOR oil, but at work, after the kitchen guys boil out the fryers, any water left in the bottom will sit there, even after cooking oil is poured in to the fryer. It will sit on the bottom till it reaches boiling point, and then its like Old Faithfull, and the fryer errupts. I may be concerned about pressure like that building around your gaskets, but if you've drained it a couple times, I would think that youve gotten most of it out and you'll be just fine.
Click to expand...
 
mighty13d said:
Isn't that what the breather tube on the top of the valve cover supposed to prevent? breather tube aka vent + pressure = no boom. Right?
Click to expand...
Indeed, but it has to get UP there first. Its unlikely that it would go BOOM anyway, but it COULD concievably start seperating gaskets from surfaces looking for a way out.
 
Well I did a nice 50 mile ride the other night up at 60-70 mph and just getting on it in general and afterward the oil was back to it's normal rich amber color. Thanks for the advice guys, I have had my share of water in oil in water cooled motors so I recognized it (as mentioned in the first post) I was just confused. I guess no one else has ever had this problem from pressure washing their bike? That is what confused me as I have pressure washed it several times before and nothing like this.
 
Pressure washers are the work of the devil.
with the exception of the car wash scene in Fandango of course.

But seriously the damned things have a nasty pulsation that beats the hell out of anything soft enought to yield to them.

Seals and hoses along with your wiring and even one suspects your tires should never be touched by pressure washers.

I have used a 2700 PSI model that could etch a concrete wall and gouge wood.

A nice biodegradeable degreaser and a normal garden house with hot water should be more than enought to clean a bike engine.

mind you a nasty jealous neighbour could be relieving themselves in the oil filler hole.
 
Calvin Blackmore said:
Pressure washers are the work of the devil.
with the exception of the car wash scene in Fandango of course.

But seriously the damned things have a nasty pulsation that beats the hell out of anything soft enought to yield to them.

Seals and hoses along with your wiring and even one suspects your tires should never be touched by pressure washers.

I have used a 2700 PSI model that could etch a concrete wall and gouge wood.

A nice biodegradeable degreaser and a normal garden house with hot water should be more than enought to clean a bike engine.

mind you a nasty jealous neighbour could be relieving themselves in the oil filler hole.
Click to expand...

Amen! Get the pressure washer away from your GS. Next thing you know the front wheel bearings will start squeaking, etc.
 
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