OK I'm Stuck - Non-GS Technical

[Anonymous]

hey hoomgar;

when you say you don't have voltage to the coil do you mean no 12 volt to the coil? check the yellow/red wire and see if you have 12 volts there. if not then trace the yellow/red wire back to the handle bar kill switch checking the connectors along the way until you find 12 volts you must have a busted wire somewhere along the way you could also check the continuity of the yellow/red wire to see if there is a break somewhere. thats the only power source for the 12 volt side of the coil. it could be a bad kill switch or a bad connector.

 

[Anonymous]

Kill Switch

Kill Switch

I had a very similar problem last fall with my GS1100.

Basically, I rode the bike 2 hrs. West from my house and it died. I had intermittent problems with my starter (well documented on this site), but this was the first time I could not bump start the bike. It was deader than roadkill.

Joe Nardy, whom I met on this site, was kind enough to set me straight. The guy who owned the bike previously installed some kind of poor man's security system that essentially circuited the wiring to the kill switch "off" position - it manually could be connected, or disconnected under one of the side panels. Joe spliced the wire back together and it ran true.

It may be an electrical short circuit or a kill switch issue.

 

[Hoomgar]

Well per those last two posts then I need to check the kill switch. I will do that tonight time pernmitting. Thanks guys. A faulty wire harness is still suspect.
:-k

 

[Anonymous]

Well per those last two posts then I need to check the kill switch. I will do that tonight time pernmitting. Thanks guys. A faulty wire harness is still suspect.
:-k

hey Hoomgar;
Yea just keep checking that yellow/red wire back from the coil until you find 12 volts.There is probably a bad connector or broken wire somewhere. Good luck as trying to find and isolate electrical problems can be diffucult and will turn you old and gray in a hurry :roll: :roll:

 

[Hoomgar]

Well per those last two posts then I need to check the kill switch. I will do that tonight time pernmitting. Thanks guys. A faulty wire harness is still suspect.
:-k

hey Hoomgar;
Yea just keep checking that yellow/red wire back from the coil until you find 12 volts.There is probably a bad connector or broken wire somewhere. Good luck as trying to find and isolate electrical problems can be diffucult and will turn you old and gray in a hurry :roll: :roll:

Opps! Too late Already old and grey. You forgot bald. Anywho, of all things, my heater broke out there. brrrrr.... I may not be doing any trouble shooting until I get that fixed.

 

[Hoomgar]

It's been simply to cold out in the garage with my heater broken to work on this guys. I thank all of you for your knowledgable input. I know have a full quiver of ideas and things to check. Hopefully next week my heater ignitor will come and I can get back out there and get to trouble shooting this scooter.

I'll update here when I find something.

 

[Hoomgar]

OK I am still stumped. Here is what I have ruled out best I can tell.

-It isn't the battery as I am using a new one known good and can even test with the charger on with same results.

-I don't believe it is the kill switch because if you turn that off the bike will not turn over but when on it does crank.

-All fuses are tested good.

I do not have juice to the coils when cranking. I put the volt meter on the + feed wire to the coil and when I crank there is about .25 volt being read that fades. Not even a volt. I checked all the wires I could and cannot find any that are broken but have found several that were rubbed through to clean copper and most likely were shorted out. I have all this stuff exposed right now and verified they all still have continuity.

Shouldn't I be reading about 12 volts or so to the coils when cranking? If so, what could be bad? Maybe the ignitor? Something else? I can't seem to crack this one. Any help is greatly appreciated guys. If anyone with a lot of experience with this type of thing has time for a phone call that would be way cool. I would really appreciate that if at all possible.

 

[bustinjustin2k]

Hi hoomgar,

Sadly I can offer you no help i think im having the same problems myself and am a totall noob to motorcycle except for carb stuff.

Just wanted to say hang in there you'll get it.

:wink:

Justin

 

[Hoomgar]

Follow the thread with me then, a lot of these guys are really good. I am 100% confident that they will help me get it fixed.

 

[Anonymous]

Like most people, I love a good mystery, and so far this is a great one. Just to muddy things a little, my old cb650(sold it ) would crank over just fine with the kill switch on or off. But no spark unless in the run position. Anyway, I pulled out the wiring diagram from my gs450 and tracing back, the wires from the coils lead back to the igniter and from there to the signal generator. Each of these can be removed and tested. If you're positive that the wiring from the ignitor to the coil is good then I'd look at either/both of these.

I'm guessing you'll need a shop manual because according to mine, if you test ignitor improperly you'll ruin it. I'm no electrical expert but I tend to heed warnings - at least occasionally.

PS: expert --> ex = has been and a spurt = a drip under pressure - get it ex-spurt.... :wink:

Follow the thread with me then, a lot of these guys are really good. I am 100% confident that they will help me get it fixed.

 

[saaz]

You should have 12 volts to the coil when the ignition is turned on. The ignitor grounds out the coil to achieve spark.

All you can do is try and test the circuit through to the coils. Something must be broken or not working. Usually the power will go through the ignition fuse, up through the kill switch then to the coils. There may be extra switches in there to protect you (eg clutch diengage, sidestand etc).

Is there power at the ignition fuse. Is there power at the kill switch. Does the wire from the ignition fuse to the kill switch/coil have continuity (test each section separately) Note, take the fuse out first!!!

You have to get power to the coil before any other problem can be found.

 

[Hoomgar]

I spent some time on the phone with Earl yesterday afternoon (Thanks Earl) and here is some of what we did.

Since I already confirmed battery and fises were good. We supplied raw power to the coils right from the battery since that is the missing element at this point and I still do not have spark when cranking. I am thinking at this point that I have some serious wiring harness issues. If you read earlier on in the thread you'll see where I was saying about the issue where turning the wheel the whole way to the left while sitting still with the engine running will shut the motor off cold. I am fairly certain that is a wiring harness issue and now this. I am going to try to find another harness for it and if that fails I'll just make one.

My one suspicion this whole time is still the ignitor itself but I know of no way to prove or disprove that.

The cold has lifted a bit so i will be working on this more. I'll post in here.

saaz, to answer some of your questions, I did test the fuse yes and it is good. And the kill switch seems to work fine. If I turn it off the bike will not crank, if I turn it on it does. Another thing to think about is that fact that this problem came on gradually until now it wont start at all.

sigh... I just want to go for a ride

 

[Hoomgar]

OK the saga continues. I have tested wires until I am actually getting sick of doing it. I cannot find a bad broken or shorted wire anywhere in the mix.

I really really really think it is the ignitor. But just don't know enough to be sure. I am reading voltage to ground when I clip the continuity tester to the + feed leed of the coil while conected to the ignitor. Does this sound right? If I unplug the ignitor and test it with or without it being connected to the coils I do not see anything. As soon as I plug the ignitor back in I am getting about half a meter reading that there is continuity between gound and hot lead on the coil.

If one of my bare spots was rubbing ground while riding couldn't that have taken out my ignitor? If so, does anyone know a way to test the ignitor and if bad where can I get one other than ebay since I am not seeing any on there?

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the help. I am at a loss and cannot get this once running bike to fire at all, something has been blown.

 

[Hoomgar]

Well it looks like this bike is going to be a scrub if this does turn out to be an ignitor. I was really hopeful to get it running so we could go for some rides in this nice weather but I can't find one anywhere. Dealer has them listed for over 500!!!! I am not shelling out hundreds of dollars on a small electrical part.

Very sad. Hopefully I can find a wrecker somewhere that may have one. I am out of ideas.

If anyone had any last inputs that could help me and my whole family would be truely greatful. If not, I know where there is going to be a lot of KZ550 parts on ebay

 

[Anonymous]

hey hoomgar;

Hang in there we ain't done yet. Sorry i've been gone for a while and not able to get on line to read forums.(did get a nice tan tho and got to do some riding)

When you said you used a different battery and used raw power did you use the wiring harness or did you run a seperate wire dirctly from battery to coil? The kz were notorious for their wiring to slip and shorten up by the handlebars. You need to establish 12 volts to the coil Check the voltage from the kill switch to the 4 pin connector under the frame taht houses the wires for the coils. You could have 12 volts at the kill switch but not at the coil as there are 2 seperate systems and the kill switch would let you use the starter but not have voltage to the coil so check this first. The yellow/red wire is the only one to worry about now as this wire carries voltage to the coils and the ignitor so if you don't have 12 volts to the coil you won't have to the ignitor either. Check this all out first then we'll check the ignitor next (i'll have to find the resistances for that) but i think there is a 12volt problem to sort out first.

 

[Hoomgar]

We did supply a fresh wire straight from the battery to the coil feed when we tested. I will test the kill switch next and post that here. Anyone know hwo to tell if the ignitor is bad or not?

 

[Hoomgar]

The kz were notorious for their wiring to slip and shorten up by the handlebars. You need to establish 12 volts to the coil Check the voltage from the kill switch to the 4 pin connector under the frame taht houses the wires for the coils. You could have 12 volts at the kill switch but not at the coil as there are 2 seperate systems and the kill switch would let you use the starter but not have voltage to the coil so check this first. The yellow/red wire is the only one to worry about now as this wire carries voltage to the coils and the ignitor so if you don't have 12 volts to the coil you won't have to the ignitor either. Check this all out first then we'll check the ignitor next (i'll have to find the resistances for that) but i think there is a 12volt problem to sort out first.

OK here is what I did just now. With everything plugged back in (ignitor harness all wiring) I put a volt/ohm meter on the negative terminal of the battery and the positive lead on a bare spot on the yellow/red-stripe wire that is going to/from the kill switch. I turn on the key and I get nothing with the kill switch in any position. Pull in the clutch as well just to make sure. No voltage on that wire. Note that the kill switch does seem to work for the starter because you cannot crank it if you don't have it in the on posision.

I am ready for the next step.

 

[Hoomgar]

Is there anyone else with any bike wiring experience that could lend a hand here? I am seriously stuck and cannot afford to pay a shop to work on this. I am hoping that someone will be able to help me pinpoint what is broken so I can fix it. Without this bike, I wont be riding until mid summer or later as that is when the GS is scheduled to be done

If you can think of anything next to check I really appreciate the help.

Thanks guys...

 

[Anonymous]

hey hoomgar;

The fact that you don't have any voltage at the yellow/red wire says that there is something wrong at the handlebars. Did you check voltage at the kill switch itself or at the coils?

This is where i need to know what model kz you have as some models like the kz550 a2 the yellow/red wire comes from the zstarter button whereas the kz550 c2 comes from the kill switch. Either way you need to check the contacts on both the kill switch and the starter switch as these are probably the parts that are giving you grief. You know you have 12 volts to the kill switch as you can run the starter so the contacts between the yellow wire(power in) and the black wire (to the starter lockout switch) is good. Pull the kill switch or starter switch (whichever the yellow/red comes out of) and spray the contacts with a contact spray to loosen any crud there. Then check for broken contacts(little copper colored metal plates) to see if they are broken.

On some models you can remove the small phillips screws and pull the contacts apart and clean them. Be careful not to lose the tiny screws. Doing that should get you voltage down to the coils and to the ignitor.
Let me know what you come up with.

 

[Hoomgar]

Thanks overboardkat, I'll do that now. It is a 81-82 KZ550 C3 LTD