Overheat now no oil pressure

[gazingwa]

Well, not a good day, I wasn't thinking and was syncing my carbs without a fan. Well all of a sudden i loose oil pressure so I shut it down. The engine is HOT. I was running for a good 30 minutes I didn't think it would be a problem. Well, an hour later, i go and start it, there is a loud rattle from the top end and my oil smells burnt, still not getting pressure. I messed up big time, where do I start? Or did i just turn this 23,000 mile gs into a parts bike?

 

[Steve]

Start with a change to some fresh oil and see if that helps. If it doesn't, it's only $10 wasted. :shock:

Somehow, I just can't imagine running the engine for 30 minutes without putting any kind of fan on it.
Was this your first time synching the carbs? With practice, you will get it down to less than five minutes, but still use a fan.

.

 

[gazingwa]

well, i had to let it warm up and get running right, yes it was my first time. It might not have been 30 minutes, there was smoke coming up from the engine, (i did just do a valve adjustment and drip some oil on top of the head). If i'm not getting pressure, would changing the oil help?

 

[gazingwa]

Update, i didn't change the oil, but I did start it up, i have oil pressure again but still have the top end rattle, I pulled the valve cover all my clearences were still in spec, i pulled the front left camshaft hold-down, no scoring. Cam chain seems tight, any ideas where the noise is from? Also pulled my plugs, no blistering, but they do look as if they were run rich.

 

[Mark M]

Somehow, I just can't imagine running the engine for 30 minutes without putting any kind of fan on it.

.

I can't imagine running an engine for 30 minutes and NEEDING a fan. Do you never get stuck in heavy traffic? Never cruise around a local park on a hot summer day? If running at low throttle/rpm for a few minutes will kill an engine, I would have replaced a number of engines by now. Yes, it got hot. Even the liquid cooled engines I have synched felt very hot while leaning over the carbs and valve cover tweaking screws and I know they were only up to operating temp, not overheating.

Not sure what the rattle would be, my first guess is the cam chain tensioner, since you just did the valve clearances as well. It should have no effect on oil pressure, though.

Mark

 

[gazingwa]

how would i check the cam tensioner to make sure it is good?

 

[Mark M]

how would i check the cam tensioner to make sure it is good?

There is a procedure in the manual to check it and confirm function. It has been a while since I touched mine, so I won't go from memory and feed you bad info. Read the book, it is not a difficult thing to do and only takes a few minutes.

Mark

 

[Steve]

If i'm not getting pressure, would changing the oil help?

It is conceivable that if you oil got really hot, it will thin out sooner than it should. Thin oil will not give you pressure, but a little more information would help, too. What bike are we talking about? How are you measuring the pressure? Some of our bikes have roller-bearing cranks that have low-pressure oiling systems. You can expect 4-7 psi as a maximum. Other bikes have a high-pressure system that will see much higher pressures, more like a car.


.

 

[catbed]

to check the chain tensioner, you have to take the ignition cover off. loosen the lock screw and nut on the #1 cylinder side. get a 19mm wrench or similar and turn the crankshaft COUNTER-CLOCKWISE while turning the spring and metal plate on the #4 cylinder side counter-clockwise also. let go of the spring but keep tension on the crankshaft. slowly let the crankshaft turn clockwise, and watch the springy thing on the chain tensioner. it should turn clockwise also. this is the chain tensioner pushing against the chain as it slackens.

 

[Guest]

You fried your oil. Change it and run it.

 

[BassCliff]

Hey howdy hey!

Hey howdy hey!

Hi Mr. gazingwa,

Another thought, the last time I read a post about a rattle in the top end, it turned out to be a cracked valve shim, not a valve, but a shim. Be sure to take a look when you have the valve cover off. And now I'm going to do what I came here to do. Here is my no-holes-barred, pedal-to-the-metal, wide open, amazing, technicolor, world's most dangerous mega-welcome! \\/

<Applause sign flashes>

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Let it be known that on this day you are cordially and formally welcomed to the GSR Forum as a Junior Member in good standing with all the rights and privileges thereof. Further let it be known that your good standing can be improved with pictures (not you, your [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]bike[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif])! [/FONT]

Perhaps you've already seen these, but I like to remind all the new members. In addition to the carb rebuild series, I recommend visiting the In The Garage section via the GSR Homepage and check out the Stator Papers. There's also a lot of great information in the Old Q&A section. I have some documentation on my little BikeCliff website to help get you familiar with doing routine maintenance tasks (note that it is 850G-specific but many tasks are common to all GS bikes). Other "user contributed" informational sites include those of Mr. bwringer, Mr. tfb and Mr. robertbarr.

And here are some edited quotes from one of our dear beloved gurus, Mr. bwringer, with ideas on basic needs (depending on initial condition), parts, and accessories.

***********Quoted from Mr. bwringer************
Carburetor maintenance:

Replace the intake boot o-rings, and possibly the intake boots. Here's the procedure:
http://bwringer.com/gs/intakeorings.html
Here's an overview of what happens with this particular problem:
http://cycleorings.com/intake.html
You'll also want to examine the boots between the carbs and the airbox. There's a good chance these are OK, but check them over.
And finally, if things still aren't exactly right, you'll want to order a set of o-rings for BS carbs from the GS owner's best friend, Robert Barr:
http://cycleorings.com
Once you receive these rare rings of delight, then you'll want to thoroughly clean and rebuild your carburetors. Here are step-by-step instructions that make this simple:
http://thegsresources.com/gs_carbrebuild.htm
***********************************
Every GS850 has (or had) a set of well-known issues that MUST be addressed before you have a solid baseline for further troubleshooting. It's a vintage bike, and it's quite common (as in, every single GS850 I have had contact with) that there are multiple problems that have crept up and slowly gotten worse over the years. It's not like a newer vehicle, where there's generally one problem at a time.

These common issues are:

1. Intake O-rings (install NEW OEM or Viton only - common nitrile O-rings will quickly deteriorate from heat)
2. Intake Boots (install NEW -- these cannot be repaired)
3. Valve clearances (more important than most people think)
4. Carb/airbox boots
5. Airbox sealing
6. Air filter sealing
7. Petcock (install a NEW one)
8. On '79 models, install new points or Dyna electronic ignition (or at least verify that the old points are working correctly)
9. On all models, it's fairly common to have problems with the spark plug caps. These are $3 or $4 each, and often worth replacing if you're keeping the stock coils/wires.
10. Stock exhaust with NO leaks or holes -- good seals at the head and at the junctions underneath.
***************************************
OEM Parts/Online Fiches:

I would definitely double and triple the recommendations to use Cycle Recycle II and Z1 Enterprises as much as possible. These guys are priceless resources. Z1 tends to have slightly better prices, CRC2 has a wider range of goodies available. If you're near Indy and can bring in an old part to match, CRC2 has a vast inventory of used parts.
http://denniskirk.com - Put in your bike model and see what they have.
http://oldbikebarn.com - seems to be slowly regaining a decent reputation, but it's still caveat emptor. They don't have anything you can't get elsewhere at a better price anyway.
http://www.babbittsonline.com/ - Decent parts prices. Spendy shipping. Don't give you part numbers at all. Useful cross-reference if you obtain a part number elsewhere. Efficient service.
http://bikebandit.com - Fastest. Middlin' prices. Uses their own parts numbering system to obfuscate price comparisons -- can be very confusing for large orders. Cheapest shipping, so total cost usually isn't too bad.
http://flatoutmotorcycles.com - Slow. Cheapest parts prices, crazy shipping costs. Don't expect progress updates or much communication. Real Suzuki part numbers.
http://alpha-sports.com - Exorbitant parts prices. Different type of fiche interface that's quite useful at times, especially with superceded part numbers. Real parts numbers. Shipping cost and speed unknown due to insane, unholy pricing.

Stainless Bolts, Viton o-rings, metric taps, dies, assorted hard-to-find supplies and materials, etc:

http://mcmaster.com - Fast, cheap shipping, good prices. No order minimum, but many items like bolts come in packs of 25 or 50. Excellent resource.
http://motorcycleseatcovers.com - Great quality, perfect fit (on original seat foam), and available for pretty much every bike ever made. Avoid the textured vinyl -- it's perforated.
http://newenough.com - You DO have riding gear, don't you? Great clearances, always outstanding prices and impeccable service.
***************End Quote**********************
Here are some extra links:

GSR Forum member Mr. duaneage has great used upgraded Honda regulator/rectifiers for our bikes. Send him a PM.
New electrical parts:
http://stores.ebay.com/RMSTATOR or http://www.rmstator.com/
http://www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/index.php
http://www.electrosport.com/
The Rice Paddy (salvage/used)
http://www.ricepaddymotorcycles.com
Ron Ayers Motorsports
http://www.ronayers.com
MR Cycles
http://www.mrcycles.com
If all else fails, try this:
http://www.used-motorcycle-parts.org/
Lots of good info/pictures here:
http://www.suzukicycles.org
http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Motorcycle_Wiki

Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed of your progress. There's lots of good folk with good experience here.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
(The unofficial GSR greeter)

 

[gazingwa]

Well, i can't find a broken shim nor any metal bits under the valve cover, what is the next thing i should check for as far as the rattle, the cam chain seems tight, i pull on it and there is no slack. Thanks for the welcome by the way, i've been a lurker for a year and a half now, I appreciate the help in my time of need.

 

[tkent02]

Well, i can't find a broken shim nor any metal bits under the valve cover, what is the next thing i should check for as far as the rattle, the cam chain seems tight, i pull on it and there is no slack. Thanks for the welcome by the way, i've been a lurker for a year and a half now, I appreciate the help in my time of need.

When my first GS 550 was nearly new, and when Mobil 1 oil first came out, I tried it. They only had one weight at first, think it was 5 wt oil or something, way too thin.
Rode it around slowly a few minutes, noticed a new noise and shut the engine off. Seems like it was a high pitched jangling tapping noise, not too loud, but it's been a long time....
Replaced the oil with the proper wt and rode it over 100,000 more miles, but that new noise never went away, nor did I ever determine the cause. Nothing ever broke on that engine.

If you got your engine hot enough for the oil pressure to go away, you probably got your oil about as thin as that Mobil 1 was.
Maybe it's the same noise?

Put in new oil and forget about it, if something breaks you will find out what it is and can fix it.

 

[Steve]

Alas, even the amazing Mr. Cliff admits he's humble. :shock:

Did anyone else catch this?

Here is my no-holes-barred, pedal-to-the-metal, wide open, amazing, technicolor, world's most dangerous mega-welcome! \\/

<Applause sigh flashes>

Yup, anyone else would have a sign, he settles for a sigh. 8-[



Ducking and running for cover, now. :-#

.

 

[Dave8338]

Alas, even the amazing Mr. Cliff admits he's humble.

Did anyone else catch this?


Yup, anyone else would have a sign, he settles for a sigh. 8-[



Ducking and running for cover, now. :-#

.

Steve....that is akin to taking a shot at the Pope! :shock: You'de better run fast be'fer the bad man gitz ya! :-D

 

[BassCliff]

Oops!

Oops!

Did anyone else catch this?

Yup, anyone else would have a sign, he settles for a sigh.

Ducking and running for cover, now.

.

Oh man, that's funny! :-D

These dang spell checkers are worthless if your misspelled word is spelled properly.

I fixed it Mr. Steve. Thanks. I'm going to have to put you on the payroll for your editing duties.

And I appreciate your concern, Mr. Dave8338. But I'm just a humble servant. 8-[ :-D

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Steve]

Steve....that is akin to taking a shot at the Pope! :shock: You'de better run fast be'fer the bad man gitz ya! :-D

Yeah, and then I have the nerve to ask him if he would host a link to the upcoming GSR shirts on his website. :-\"

For those that have not see the shirt update in the Off-Topic forum, we are working on developing the order form. I have a guy that thinks it will take a week or so once he gets all the information, then some testing, so I hope to be able to get them going by the middle of April. \\/

.

 

[gazingwa]

ok well i dove into the bike today after letting it rest for 2 weeks. The boot o-rings are shot.

The plastic knob on the cam chain tensioner had kicked all the way out and was touching the oil pressure sender (it was a little deformed from the heat too. What would cause this?




All of the cam lobes looked good, I draned the oil and there wasn't metal stream in it. It doesn't sound like i didn't major damage but should i pull the head and check in case?

 

[Nessism]

ok well i dove into the bike today after letting it rest for 2 weeks. The boot o-rings are shot.

The plastic knob on the cam chain tensioner had kicked all the way out and was touching the oil pressure sender (it was a little deformed from the heat too. What would cause this?

All of the cam lobes looked good, I draned the oil and there wasn't metal stream in it. It doesn't sound like i didn't major damage but should i pull the head and check in case?

Sounds like you need to figure out what's going on with the tensioner - the knob should not be hitting on the pressure sensor. Since you need to pull the carbs to fix the o-rings anyway you should have easy access. I wouldn't mess with the top end unless you need to to fix the tensioner.

 

[gazingwa]

I already have all of that pulled, looks like its time to order a few o rings. Thanks everyone for all your help.