Paper-ing my Stator: Or... Electricity confuses me

[Roostabunny]

So where do you stand now? Are you waiting for the sh775? Is the stator still in the bike? Did you recheck the measurements on the stator but first confirm the meter is working.

Thanks man!

Stator still in the bike, and marginally charging as we thought.

I got a 122VAC measurement from a household outlet, which I took as confirmation that the meter has been reading OK, but I have not then re-checked the readings from the bike. Been tough with family events and incessant rain. I don't have a garage, so wrenching (especially electrical) is both time and weather-dependent.

I've sent my data to Rick's, which the lady who answered the email said she was waiting for a tech to review it so they could try to help. Course, they're all out of the shop from around mid-day on the 3rd till Monday. I won't begrudge them that, but I do hope to hear something early in the week.

I'm also expecting an R-R from Cycle Parts Warehouse - ordered on the 2nd, hopefully arrive this week. I know they've charged my card, so I believe it's shipped.

 

[posplayr]

OK, back with the full data set...

Quick Test results (VDC):
Key off = 12.9
Key on +10sec = 12.3
1500 RPM = 13.8
2500 RPM = 13.2
5000 RPM = 13.1
Key off = 13.0

If I'm reading the quick test correctly...
- I'm charging
- I should be getting more voltage at 2500 RPM than at 1500

Edit:
So I think I'm still having stator problems, despite the new unit. Possibly related to the 40VAC I'm getting when I measure leg->ground?

I'm guessing that this is still the valid data and if so yes it is low and based on the low Phase A voltage drop data you are not pushing any current. Unfortunately it still points at the stator, even if the data appears inconclusive.

 

[Killer2600]

Sorry for being unclear , I do have a degree so if there is anything specific that you want to ask go ahe

Nothing I need to ask as I'm self-sufficient on the subject but if you'd like to clarify in what way a wye configured stator with neutral shorted to the engine case is "undetectable"

 

[posplayr]

Nothing I need to ask as I'm self-sufficient on the subject but if you'd like to clarify in what way a wye configured stator with neutral shorted to the engine case is "undetectable"

Sorry I posted in a hurry and got wrapped up in Eil's degenerate cases. See if you can find it.

 

[tom203]

Yes, Roostabunny, your pretty stator isn't pushing enough current- at least towards R/R. How about trying a Caltric stator ? last price I saw was $60 including shipping. Basscliff has been using one for a while.

 

[Killer2600]

Sorry I posted in a hurry and got wrapped up in Eil's degenerate cases. See if you can find it.

You'll have to clarify what "it" is, I already found waldo

 

[Matchless]

Hi Roostabunny,
Without the bike running and the 3 stator leads disconnected, do a quick resistance test between the 3 AC wires and the casing. There should be no continuity at all.

Its usually a good idea to do a resistance check on any stator before installation.

I find that this test is often overlooked.

A copper wire wound recklessly wound can make through on a sharp edge and cause this.

 

[Roostabunny]

Hi Roostabunny,
Without the bike running and the 3 stator leads disconnected, do a quick resistance test between the 3 AC wires and the casing. There should be no continuity at all.

That's part of the puzzle, man. It's buried back there on page 6, but with the bike off and stator leads disconnected I got 1ohm between legs and infinite resistance from leg to ground.

Edit: Not that I'm dismissing the possibility of a workmanship problem with this stator.

 

[Matchless]

That's part of the puzzle, man. It's buried back there on page 6, but with the bike off and stator leads disconnected I got 1ohm between legs and infinite resistance from leg to ground.

Edit: Not that I'm dismissing the possibility of a workmanship problem with this stator.

Sorry missed that. I usually do that test with a 1000V Megger, if the multimeter shows nothing, which is an old insulation tester with a crank handle I have. Maybe its just happening when hot or breaking down at higher voltage only.

 

[posplayr]

Sorry missed that. I usually do that test with a 1000V Megger, if the multimeter shows nothing, which is an old insulation tester with a crank handle I have. Maybe its just happening when hot or breaking down at higher voltage only.

There is quite a difference between an 3V ohmmeter and a 1000V Megger

 

[Matchless]

There is quite a difference between an 3V ohmmeter and a 1000V Megger

Jim, I must say you are right, they don't look alike at all and quite a substantial price difference! My Megger is a 1960 model and still going strong.

 

[posplayr]

Jim, I must say you are right, they don't look alike at all and quite a substantial price difference! My Megger is a 1960 model and still going strong.

I just discovered that there are several available for very reasonable prices on Ebay.

Old school:
Silver Tone Resistance Measurement Tester Megger
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Silver-Tone...409?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac0e1dc71

Digital :
VC60B+ Digital Insulation Resistance Tester Megger
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VC60B-Digit...155&pid=100005&prg=1088&rk=2&sd=321063607409&

 

[Roostabunny]

Sorry missed that. I usually do that test with a 1000V Megger, if the multimeter shows nothing, which is an old insulation tester with a crank handle I have. Maybe its just happening when hot or breaking down at higher voltage only.

No worries - this thread has really ranged.

And yes, I was going to say, that sounds similar to what Posplayr's said about getting AC voltage to ground (when we know the stator's putting out 80V) despite clean leg-->ground results from a 9V meter continuity test. 80VAC (or 1000V) is a lot more potential pushing on that insulation - if I haven't murdered the electrical metaphor.

Makes me wonder - my apparent ignorance about electricity belies the fact that I work for a telecom equipment manufacturer. I'm sure I've heard of a megger, and now I'm wondering if there's one in the building I could carry down to the parking lot. I'll ask around.

 

[Guest]

We used to have plenty of Meggers aboard when I was in the Navy, but if you check the prices on them you will see why you don't ever see them very much. They are the only reliable way to check insulation varnished wire. It's must have test equipment if you do a lot of motor or stator winding, but most people just buy replacements instead of fixing stuff anymore.

 

[posplayr]

We used to have plenty of Meggers aboard when I was in the Navy, but if you check the prices on them you will see why you don't ever see them very much. They are the only reliable way to check insulation varnished wire. It's must have test equipment if you do a lot of motor or stator winding, but most people just buy replacements instead of fixing stuff anymore.

You apparently missed my post RE ebay meggers above. :-\\\

 

[Guest]

No, the Silver-Tone looked interesting, but where would you get one calibrated? I don't think I would trust a $50.00 electronic megger, kind of like a $2.00 multimeter, but I would be delighted to be proved wrong.

 

[posplayr]

It can happen

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=1895734&postcount=9

 

[posplayr]

No, the Silver-Tone looked interesting, but where would you get one calibrated? I don't think I would trust a $50.00 electronic megger, kind of like a $2.00 multimeter, but I would be delighted to be proved wrong.

Well who really needs to have it calibrated? If it will produce 250V your volt meter can probably measure that to confirm, you have a pretty good stress test for your stator. Detecting shorts is all you are really doing, you are either pregnant or not.

 

[Matchless]

How about that! The silver one with the handle looks the same as mine. Except mine is marked as made in Britain for the Union of South Africa which was before 1961.
Just a correction mine is 500V, not 1000V, I was confusing it with a different one we used to do open line testing for LI and that was many years ago!
Well had smaller ones that used 100V and 250V out as well.

Apologies for messing up your thread Roostabunny.

I just discovered that there are several available for very reasonable prices on Ebay.

Old school:
Silver Tone Resistance Measurement Tester Megger
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Silver-Tone...409?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac0e1dc71

Digital :
VC60B+ Digital Insulation Resistance Tester Megger
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VC60B-Digit...155&pid=100005&prg=1088&rk=2&sd=321063607409&

 

[Roostabunny]

OK, two updates.

First off, I spoke with Rick at Rick's Motorsports Electrics and he indicated that you'll normally see about half the output voltage when you test from leg-->ground with the bike running. Hmmm.

This doesn't at all explain the dropping battery charging voltage with increased RPM, but he made a couple of sensible suggestions:

- making sure all three legs connected directly to the R/R (I think mine do, but need to double check - might have the loop to the ignition switch that Rick mentioned)

- use an inline fuse to bypass the harness and connect the positive R/R output to the + terminal on the battery (which I think Posplayr already mentioned in this thread, and which I already have a fuse holder for)

The second thing is that I opened the box my new regulator shipped in and pulled out... a tiny SPACESHIP! Ok seriously though, it's not what I expected, so I'll post pics in a bit. It's probably the right thing and I just need to search on here to find out how to connect it.

EDIT: OK some quick searching confirmed what I suspected, that the unit I bought is the correct unit and that connecting it takes additional parts/ingenuity. I kept the pic post anyway, for reference.