Pods on, jets in - super rich!

[Ric]

Hi again, yall!

So I put on the pods(K&N-type from Dime City Cycle), put 127.5 main jets in the carbs, and replaced the needle spacer with a .032" fiber washer. Apparently I've overdone it somewhere, because it'll start with a little throttle, run fine for a minute, even take a good crack of the wrist or two. But it soon just goes to hell in a handbag and floods out. I actually broke the back tire loose once it took full throttle, though! :O Plugs are wet with gas upon removal.

Now, I understand having to give a little throttle to idle it, since I haven't popped the plugs and opened the pilot screws yet - was kinda gambling on the fact that it idled rich before the pods so that's on me. And I've allowed for altitude/pods/pipes in main jet selection, based on the guidelines found in this site(understanding that they are merely guidelines). The back tire breakout kinda supports those guidelines, by the way. Only two things I can think of is I raised the needle too high, or I need to drop the float level. Those fiber washers are about 1/4 the thickness of the stock needle spacer.

Am I on the right track, yall?

 

[Steve]

If you are basing your "very rich" running solely on (near) idle speeds, your mains and the needles don't even factor in here.

You mentioned the mixture (pilot) screws still have the sealing caps on them? :-k
That tells me that the o-rings have not been changed.
Which also suggests that the carbs might not be clean.
Which also makes me wonder if the float height has been set.

Stock mains are 115. You have a stock exhaust on there? Your 127.5 might be a bit large, but hard to tell at idle.
If some of the o-rings are leaking, they can let enough fuel past to create a super-rich condition.
If an air passage is dirty, you will have a rich condition.
Float height is a bit different on these, it is 21.4 +/- 1.0mm, measured from the bottom of the 'step' on the float.

.

 

[Ric]

Thanks for the info, Steve!

It has homebrewed pipes on it with 17" megaphones. Put those on a few months ago. I've run it wide open a d it does well there. But it's crazy rich at mid throttle and won't idle - like I said I gambled on the previously rich idle and lost. I know what needs to happen there.

It ran decent before the pods/rejet, so I believe it's something I did to it.

 

[Scout]

Start with a compete teardown rebuild and go from there. Most of the guys here don't recommend pods and I believe them. I am from a Harley background and most of the tune adjustments with air flow / exhaust have been figured out over the years but with these four carb engines there are many more variables and it's a more difficult process. With a H-D you have only one carb to be concerned with

 

[Ric]

I'm actually doing this to a twin, so it's only twice as complicated as a Harley.

 

[Rob S.]

FYI - don't believe the pod-haters.

My bike starts instantly, idles beautifully, and pulls hard to redline with nary a cough. (I had it jetted on a dynamometer.)

 

[Ric]

Rob, I believe it was your outcome that inspired me to commit to pods. Thanks for the encouragement!

Pilot screw assemblies were unplugged, pulled and cleaned, and set at three full turns from bottoming out. Floats were crazy - 19mm give or take. I set them on the high side at 23, before re-reading the stock level Steve posted. I'll drop them a half a mm tomorrow, throw'em on, and see what she does.

Come to think of it, that float level may have been why I leaked gas all over with the fuel switch on Prime?

 

[Scout]

FYI - don't believe the pod-haters.

My bike starts instantly, idles beautifully, and pulls hard to redline with nary a cough. (I had it jetted on a dynamometer.)

What I have learned is you really don't know anything about bike mechanics Rob and just have all of your stuff worked on. You had it dynoed and tuned and wrote a good size check to do so. Most of the guys going pods are simply frustrated about having to take the airbox on/off and/or trying to save the bucks for new airbox rubbers. Unless your sending the guy a check your advice is not all that helpful

 

[Ric]

Yall, there's really no need for calling anyone out here. Whether Rob paid somebody to tune his bike or whether he did it all with duct tape and pliers - what matters to me is that his bike runs well. It shows me that it CAN happen, and I'm up to the challenge. Not like anyone can't bend tangs and unscrew jets a few times over.

I think I'll get mine running right, and then I'll post what all it took along with any pertinent info like altitude and whatnot. If it isn't already there, could we start a "what it took to make pods work" thread for everyone's bikes to make the next newbies a little better informed?

 

[TxGSrider]

If it helps any, Ive got pods on my 82, gs1100 with yosh 4-1 exhaust and its a little rich at part throttle but otherwise it runs great. I'm using a dynojet kit, and honestly I've been too busy with other stuff to take the time to pull the carbs off and drop the needle a notch. A little rich never hurt anything (except mpg) so I haven't been in a rush to change it. When I bought it, it had pods, and the PO had shimmed up the needles and had a big main jet. It ran ok, surged a little at light throttle (lean I assume) and didn't rev as clean as it does now.
What I'm saying is, they can be made to work with fine pods, but I have no idea whether they run better or worse than they do with the air box.

 

[Rob S.]

What I'm saying is, they can be made to work fine with pods, but I have no idea whether they run better or worse than they do with the air box.

More power near redline, sometimes a little loss near the bottom.

At least that's my take on it.

 

[Ric]

Pods flow more air. A lot more. To make the engine run right, you need to add fuel to restore the air:fuel ratio. Doing so increases power output. Considerably.

 

[Ric]

UPDATE - she runs!!!

Got home, put the carbs back on and buttoned everything down, and after priming the system she sputtered to life! Warmed her up, and she idles now with the pilots at 3 full turns out. Picks up good when I roll on the throttle, too!

Obviously some fine tuning is still in order, but so far so good. B(

 

[Ric]

Took it for a trial run - I'm impressed so far! Noticeably louder - dunno if that's from muffler packing issues or just that much more airflow through the engine, but this has to be the most p!$$ed-off sounding GS300L ever. Also pulls considerably harder. Will check plugs tomorrow in daylight.

It's worth pointing out that I never dropped the floats from the 23mm I set them at.

 

[Rob S.]

Good for you - keep up the good work!

Don't you just love it when a plan works out?

 

[Ric]

Yeah I do. B(

 

[Ric]

Certainly not a viable plug chop, but here's how they look after the maiden voyage last night:

Left cylinder

 

[Ric]

Right cylinder