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Possible Substitute Igniter?

  • Thread starter Thread starter User
  • Start date Start date
It might work. :o

You do have to be careful if you get an ignitor from before '82.

The '82 and newer had the advance built into the ignitor, earlier ones had a mechanism on the end of the crank.

.
 
Both the stock box, and the "possible" replacement look similar. Both having two places for plugs with 4 prongs per each plug. Only difference being that one set of prongs are closer together than the ones that are on the stock box. Bottom line is they both have the same amount of connections. I have found one from a 88-96 model, so it's only a few years removed from stock. I just don't know how the timing advance works in these things, and if I can just make the wiring work. I don't want to butcher my harness if this doesn't have a chance to work. However, until I get some sparks, the whole bike is worthless.
 
User said:
Both the stock box, and the "possible" replacement look similar. Both having two places for plugs with 4 prongs per each plug. Only difference being that one set of prongs are closer together than the ones that are on the stock box. Bottom line is they both have the same amount of connections. ...
Click to expand...
Strangely enough, that also describes the wrong box. :o

.
 
Well, as mentioned, the early ones do not have the ignition advance built in, so ignition timing will be off.

I have not done any research, but I would also suspect that an ignitor for a different size engine would have different timing advance curves and/or limits. It would require a few hours with the different service manuals to see if the curves are compatible before I would venture a reasonable guess.

What I meant by "wrong box" is that the description you gave for your ignitor and its electrical connectors also describes the ignitor and connectors for the unit that does not have the timing advance built in, which makes it the "wrong box". In other words, you can't just go by the looks, you have to know what's inside.

.
 
i'll let you in on a secret...
an 1150 box will plug right in on your bike..
guess what?
it doesn't work.
been there...done that.
just because a box has the same connectors doesn't mean it will work.
as far as i know you need an 83-86 550 L/E/ES box and nothing else.
 
blowerbike said:
i'll let you in on a secret...
an 1150 box will plug right in on your bike..
guess what?
it doesn't work.
been there...done that.
just because a box has the same connectors doesn't mean it will work.
as far as i know you need an 83-86 550 L/E/ES box and nothing else.
Click to expand...

the 1150/750/700 boxes look identical to your box...no spark if you install one of these.
there are A LOT of 83-86 550's floating around with no spark..A LOT.
ive had several here at different times all with bad igniter's.
and dyna does not offer one for these "small" signal generator bikes.
 
blowerbike said:
i'll let you in on a secret...
an 1150 box will plug right in on your bike..
guess what?
it doesn't work.
been there...done that.
just because a box has the same connectors doesn't mean it will work.
as far as i know you need an 83-86 550 L/E/ES box and nothing else.
Click to expand...
I believe you, but what's so different about this ignition system? Is it a CDI type?
 
blowerbike said:
the 1150/750/700 boxes look identical to your box...no spark if you install one of these.
there are A LOT of 83-86 550's floating around with no spark..A LOT.
ive had several here at different times all with bad igniter's.
and dyna does not offer one for these "small" signal generator bikes.
Click to expand...

So if I installed a "big" signal generator, which one would I need to look for ?
 
Has anyone tried to open one of these igniters up?If so,I wonder if they're potted in epoxy or not.If not,they maybe repairable.I've managed to bring a few igniters off of various bikes back to life.
 
I opened this one, and it's very easy to access all of the parts. The entire board will come out. I just don't know crap about silicone chips, and electronics. I just know that it won't test worth a crap, and I need one that works. How were you able to repair previous igniters? Any signs to look for?
 
User said:
I opened this one, and it's very easy to access all of the parts. The entire board will come out. I just don't know crap about silicone chips, and electronics. I just know that it won't test worth a crap, and I need one that works. How were you able to repair previous igniters? Any signs to look for?
Click to expand...


PM me, I might be able to help with some repair info.
 
A good bit of the time it's capacitors that fail in them.
Since you aren't familiar with electronics,I would suggest you check for broken solder joints,I have run into that as well.What you would do is to visually inspect for hairline circular cracks where the component leads are soldered to the board.Also you can place your finger tip on the solder joint while attempting to wiggle the component from the other side.If you feel movement in the lead where it comes though the solder,it has broken loose.
Heat and vibration causes this.
 
koolaid_kid said:
I looked on your site this morning for a possible "Ignitor Repair" write up, but did not see one. :)
Click to expand...


I only have the GS1000G up there : http://www.mediafire.com/?mmmoluy1yev

I may have a schematic for the GS450 (32900-47020), but need to redraw it. I also have a schematic for building a replacement type for the twins. Non are my own work and thus not proven or tested, but may help with fault finding and repairing. I will try and do the schematic asap, just need some time to draw it up properly. If the twins still have electromechanical advance it may even be possible to adapt the Chevy HEI moodules to do the work. although I have not done it myself, only for testing the GS1000G again.
 
User said:
So if I installed a "big" signal generator, which one would I need to look for ?
Click to expand...

a large plate will not fit your bike...there's a huge difference between the large and small plates.
and to answer a question posted to me earlier...
the only difference i assume is in how these parts are wired.
i tried different model's boxes that directly plugged in and even looked identical except for the part numbers and the bike still had no spark.
the boxes i tried was known good boxes for 700/750/1150 models.
could these boxes have there wiring changed around to work on the 83-86 550???...maybe.
i never went that far.
 
I have found a box for a 1993 Honda Nighthawk 550. From what I can tell, the bike has the same type of ignition system. Air cooled, 4 cylinder, 57x cc....closest match I could find to the 1985 GS 550. Any reason I couldn't figure out the wire routing/positioning. Place the wires in the corresponding positions and hope for a spark? Any bets on the outcome? I don't see a reason that the two boxes wouldn't be very similar in production. I have been trying to find a wiring diagram for the 1983 Honda 550, but haven't had any luck. I also haven't been able to get the honda igniter out of the box like I did the one for my bike.

I tested the new box in the same "table" form that the manual suggests for the stock box. I made a table just like to one that was built in my service manual and compared. The wire configuration is obviously different, but I can't follow the patterns close enough to figure it out. I also think that where the Suzuki box has one ground wire on the plug that goes to the signal generator, the Honda box has two. I don't see another ground being a problem though. Other than that, I don't see how different they could be. However, I don't know anything about process that is going on inside that damn box either......

Advice?
 
Thanks, Matchless. I missed it the first time through. It just seemed like something you would have on your site. ;)
 
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