Potential Group Purchase - Wiseco GS650 741cc pistons

[Chuck78]

So all of the layers are evenly stacked in the cylinder bores this time??? And the bores line up with even spacing?

If so, I'm ready to have John re-make the original batch again if this quality can be replicated again, but with the dowell alignment holes enlarged to proper size...


It's about time...!!! One less thing to be stressed out over...

Only problem remaining is that the two members outside of the USA have never gotten back to me about returning their original mis-fitting MLS gaskets... since those were shipped direct.

Charlie, I will try to have John refund you the price of your original gasket, since it was one of the 10 which I returned and was awaiting either a refund or a re-make of.

Emailing John back here next...

 

[Old Colt]

The gasket I have here is 3 layers and they line up fine. Is this gasket what I would call "Perfect" no, but it is a good serviceable gasket.
The gasket is a few thou off here and there. Is this my drawing or the way their die was setup?, I do not know.
The gasket however is fully functional and now is made to my CAD drawings I provided.

The first gasket I received the distance between to end dowel holes was 366.5mm where our cylinder blocks are 368mm. This was clearly marked in the CAD drawing I provided and if they scanned my drawing or run it directly off the print that error would not have been there.
I also do not understand ow the hole sizes were off for the studs and dowels, they were clearly stated as well. John has this all addressed on his end now.

Chuck, I am curious if the gaskets you received were stamped to 366mm as well. That looked to be the major error and somehow was in their setup all along.

So if nothing gets changed on the manufacturing end we should all receive usable gaskets and we can move forward with what should be a great project.

 

[gilldog]

Good news these are getting sorted, pm me your address please and I?ll get the gasket shipped back over to you
thanks
chris

So all of the layers are evenly stacked in the cylinder bores this time??? And the bores line up with even spacing?

If so, I'm ready to have John re-make the original batch again if this quality can be replicated again, but with the dowell alignment holes enlarged to proper size...


It's about time...!!! One less thing to be stressed out over...

Only problem remaining is that the two members outside of the USA have never gotten back to me about returning their original mis-fitting MLS gaskets... since those were shipped direct.

Charlie, I will try to have John refund you the price of your original gasket, since it was one of the 10 which I returned and was awaiting either a refund or a re-make of.

Emailing John back here next...

 

[tadakan]

Let me know if I should start my own thread, I'm trying to keep this relevant to the group buys you all have already done.

I'm just getting my 1980 gs550 up and running, so of course it's time to start thinking about modifying it!

It looks like the wiseco piston buy is long since finished and I'd be looking at another 12 piece minimum for a buy. Any chance of getting in on the head gaskets still? I'm assuming there's a minimum on that also, although I haven't read through the hundreds of posts yet...

If anyone has a great deal on a good candidate 650 top end I'd be interested in that also.

Anyone in Washington state doing this project that will be willing to let me see/hear it when you're done?

Thanks,
Tom

 

[Old Colt]

The gasket buy is ongoing, there should be no problem getting one. Chuck 78 is handling that. Even after this buy is completed the company we are working with now has the proper tooling and can make individual gaskets in the future so ordering directly will be available.

As for the pistons there has definitely been continued interest for more of them. 3 sets should not be hard to sell, I am not in the position to host a buy but I expect if someone did a call out enough buyers would come onboard to get another batch made especially since we now have a viable supply of head gaskets. It would not surprise me if another order of pistons might be quite successful especially one a few of the first batch may soon be up and running.

I am starting to think if sleeves for the exhaust ports might be of interest since the 550 Ex pipes are smaller on the OD than what the 650 head was designed for.
What are peoples thought on this?

 

[tadakan]

Thanks Charlie, I appreciate the info, I'll contact Chuck78 about the gasket buy.

I haven't done any engine builds so I can't speak to exhaust port sleeves, I'll definitely keep an eye on this thread though.

Tom

 

[Chuck78]

2 more K740 piston order buyers needed! Ask Tadakan

2 more K740 piston order buyers needed! Ask Tadakan

I last communicated with John from Gaskets To Go on Saturday, 6 days ago. Everything was finalized for producing another sample gasket and sending it to me for my approval, and then the batch will get completely remade based on Old Colt / Charlie's CAD drawing that he sent in. I will be on an 11 day mountain trip in Colorado the 13th-24th, so I am hoping that I may get the final test gasket for approval before then.

Tom aka TADakan is in on this purchase now, but is hoping to find 2 more GS550/650 owners who want to order another batch of Wiseco pistons.
If you own a 550 or 650 and want to put a 650 top end together with some Wiseco K740 pistons, speak up, and email Tom & Ed about getting another custom batch made.

My wife is bugging me about getting her a Suzuki together, as she is somewhat coming to the realization that her 700lb 56hp 1337cc no brake having slow heavy long and lazy '86 Harley FXR is never going to be able to keep up with me on anything resembling a twisty road... thank goodness for Japanese engineering!

 

[EGB]

I know that this is old and ongoing thread but I am interested in getting in on the newest Wiseco GS650 741cc piston purchase. I would be interested in the new gaskets, but only if i get the big pistons. (I have a stock 79' 550 and two 650 heads).
Ed

 

[Ace07]

Hey Guys,

Sorry for being so removed from this thread. Charlie, did you ever get the final product for approval?

Thanks,

Andy

 

[Chuck78]

Yes he did, and another is arriving any day now in my mailbox, shipped out Sept 13th, tracking # RR190169861TH
. Then all should be well to have the rest shipped out.

I will try and talk them into shipping out to each purchaser instead of one package to me & then shipping out individually to everyone.

 

[Ace07]

Ok thanks for the update!!!

 

[Chuck78]

Still waiting for the package... It just arrived in US customs according to my tracking email update.
John said he was sending just one gasket for my approval now. Hopefully we can get the rest of them re-manufactured immediately as soon as that one is in my hands.
Sorry about this fellas, Cometic would have been so much faster! A few weeks, instead of months and months and months and months and months...

 

[BigWookie]

Seems like a dead thread, but I'm curious. Was this ever completed? I have a pair of 550's that I'd like to build for me and the mrs, but I don't want to start ripping them apart if it's not doable. The pistons seem like the right call. Also, does anyone have a good starting point for where to get the pistons made, what I need to bore the cylinders at, really, what I need to do to make this happen? If you've got a starting point, I can read from there.

 

[Old Colt]

BW, I am curious also, there has been talk of getting another batch of pistons made by Wiseco. A single set would be cost prohibitive.

The head gaskets are being made overseas, I see above that there is no resolution to the most recent batch of gaskets.
The gasket itself can be ordered by anyone, we did the design work and they should all be set.
I do have the prototype gasket but have not had a chance to build the engine.

 

[Chuck78]

Yes this has all been completed, the resolution to the final batch of head gaskets was completed quite a while ago, October of last year, shortly after my last post before this one, and all involved have a good batch of head gaskets thanks to Charlie's efforts making an accurate CAD drawing, & 1 re-make after the initial test gaskets were sent to Charlie and then myself.

We now have some very nice multi-layer steel head gaskets in the thicknesses required, but all in all, it would have been FAR EASIER for at least the initial run to have gone with a standard CFM-20 composite-fiber material modified dimensions GS650 head gasket from Cometic with the bores enlarged for 64.74mm (65mm) pistons and the thickness increased to 1.6mm or 1.7mm for use with GS550 hybrid engines running a GS650G top end. Standard thickness applies if one were to use a GS650 bottom end.
Based off of our final order of gaskets via Charlie's CAD drawing, these MLS gaskets are available for anyone to order from gasketstogo.com (or you can try out Cometic's 1-off custom order gasket based on dimensional changes on a standard GS650 gasket)


The cost is very prohibitive to get one set of pistons for one engine, because you would end up having to buy 12 pistons total & then have 8 to spare or re-sell here. Wiseco will only do a minimum of 12 pistons (or more) per custom order batch. At least we have a 4-cylinder engine, so that means only having to find two others who are interested. There was one other member interested a little while back if you will read back in this thread.

I will have one of these on the road here after I heal up from knee surgery another 5 or so weeks when I get to start wrenching in the garage again heavily...

 

[Old Colt]

I would think getting 3 or more new piston sales should be possible should someone want to undertake it. There has been interest on a few other forums while this thread has been going.
Nice to hear all the gaskets are out there, maybe one of us will get these riding.

 

[tadakan]

Hey there,

I started another thread awhile back about getting another group buy going for the wiseco pistons. I also posted about it on at least one other forum.

I'm still planning to do it. I exchanged a few messages with chuck78 recently and got a huge amount if useful info about the build and general engine build work (ive never built a motorcycle engine before so I may have more questions than you do.) I'm happy to share what he sent me and i'm planning to write it up with pictures as I do it whenever that is.

I picked up a set of 650 carbs recently and i'm in the market for a kickstart 550 lower and complete 650, but not in a huge hurry.

It sounds like you have two bikes you want to do this on, so between the two of us we meet the minimum buy. There was one other guy who was a maybe also. I dont remember how many we needed for the next price break.

Please PM me if you're interested. It would probably be easier to communicate via email or phone.

If this is a "soon" thing for you, I probably don't have time or energy to spearhead it. Had to take my dad to the hospital on Saturday and he isn't doing well.

 

[Chuck78]

Some good reading for those digging into this mod or even just a standard OEM piston 550/650 hybrid:

https://www.thegsresources.com/_for...-550-Yes-672-block-and-pistons-on-a-550-cases

https://www.thegsresources.com/_for...07-Mike-R-s-GS550-650-bare-bones-street-racer

https://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?212247-550-650-head-differences

The most important one, the initial findings by Suzuki_Don/BadBillyB that the 550 vs 650G deck heights are different, making piston to head clearance almost nothing upon assembly, and some will have piston-to-head interference or else very dangerously close...

https://www.thegsresources.com/_for...Camshaft-Top-End-Rattle&p=1295188#post1295188
*Post #52 way back in that thread is also very pertinent on the somewhat odd factory camshaft timimg on the 650's, & the need to slot the sprockets and re-degree the cams to a more appropriate setting. I will likely run 550 cams or in my 2nd 550/740 build, MegaCycle Cams, so this will be a different animal altogether..

I am potentially trying to bridge a gap in my bike stable to where I can get rid of one of my many bikes, as my 750/920cc is going to be faster than a lightly modified 1000, and this will be significantly faster than a stock 750 if I go all out with Wiseco's and Megacycle Cams and smoothbore carbs on my second 550 hybrid build...

https://www.thegsresources.com/_for...Camshaft-Top-End-Rattle&p=1270901#post1270901

Another thought (that's three now) I had was the way that I did degree the cams in when I was setting the motor up.
The factory specs give the lobe centres as Exhaust 103 and Intake 106. According to RAY this is back to front as to how the cams should operate. Apparently the exhaust should have the larger lobe centre number to gain better cylinder scavenging.
When I first installed the 650 cams I checked the lobe centres to see what position they were at before I slotted the cam sprockets and started to degree them in. The figures that I came up with was Exhaust 103 (exactly as it should be) and Intake 108, 2 degrees more than it should be.
On advice from RAY he said it would be best for more torque to degree them in at Exhaust 106 and Intake 104 degrees. So this is what I did, which means it is the other way round from the way they were degreed before as stated by RAY.
The actual final figures which I achieved were Exhaust 106.625 and Intake 105 degrees.
Could the fact that I have reversed the way the cams were set up originally be causing this noise/problem or does it have to be something hitting/rubbing/dragging on some other part of the motor?
All replies appreciated.

Also, I think I will be using these K&N RC-2382 dual oval filters. I have similar RC2222's on my VM26's/VM28's/VM29's.

On a KZ:

Poor photo, but on a GS550:

I have also been toying around with the idea of using a 550 or 650 carb rack for parts involving the spacing widths in between 2&3 (choke linkage shaft, fuel tee, posdibly throttle blade shaft parts although I am hesitant to remove those screws that hold the butterflies on as they are peened over at the factory and will need ground off from the backside and replaced with new), but 80-82 gs750 carb bodies. The BS32 era 750 is a 16-valve engine, so it will flow better, but those stock carbs were jetted for stock compression ratio pistons, and ours will be 740cc vs 748cc, & ours about 10:1 or if it lives up to the Wiseco claim with the head and block resurfaced, 10.35:1.

 

[BigWookie]

Those filters are gorgeous, but I remember sometime back reading that the old GS bikes absolutely hate anything other than a stock airbox, and they're supposed to be a bitch and a half to jet with anything other than stock. Maybe I'm way out in left field just because of the radical motor changes, but how tough are these things to dial in?

 

[Chuck78]

The CV/diaphragm style carbs that will not EVER run right on pods are the DOHC Honda CB bikes with the piece of junk 3-jet carbs with the big round can looking top caps, but these BS32's CAN be jetted properly for pods with some skill & patience. Some people just don't have this kind of trial & error patience or experience or selection of jets/jet needles/shim washers to do so.
Granted running the airbox will give you a bit easier jetting selection process with a modified engine/exhaust, but the process of removing and much moreso REINSTALLING the airbox boots can be a MAJOR PAIN IN THE ___... Brand new airbox boots are WELL WORTH the $ at this stage, every bit of pliability drastically improves this situation.
The bike will definitely need some minor jet size and needle position changes even if sticking with airbix and BS32 GS650 carbs. I have no airboxes, so I'll be going for the K&N RC-2382's for my 1st of 2 builds.
The 2nd build (my personal 550, other belongs to the Misses) will be getting VM28 pumpers with more drastic jetting changes from their original KZ1000 application, & definitely no airbox as these are direct linkage carbs (requiring special spacing of the intake boots with GS400/425 boot spacers to avoid hitting the cam chain tunnel). This one will get broken in like that, but then a pair of MegaCycle Cams regrinds will be swapped in once the piston rings have been broken in.
I'm also building a fresh modified KDX220 engine + KX125/500 front end after this 550/650 & then resto-modding a 77 Suzuki PE175, so my second tier ofvstreet bikes will be an ongoing project mid-year and into next winter...
Always tinkering on something big...