Potential Group Purchase - Wiseco GS650 741cc pistons

[Ace07]

Hey everybody,

I just called Wiseco today. They would be more than happy to start making some GS650 big bore pistons which are have a 65mm bore. Thanks to Chuck in another thread, we have the part number for these pistons. The gentleman from wiseco told me that there is a minimum order of 12 pistons, and each piston would roughly cost $125 dollars. That price will include the rings, wrist pin and clips. Of course that price will change with size of order we place with them. If you are interested in a set please post on this thread. I have never done a group buy before, so I am not sure how to get money exchanged, so I am asking for some expert advice.

Thanks,

Andy

 

[rapidray]

3 sets, for 500 a set is pretty fair!
Ray.

 

[Chuck78]

Awesome, I'm really glad Adam aka Loud ET got that 1981 catalog and scanned the GS big bore kit page, and also very stoked that Ace took the initiative to call Wiseco!

Adam's vintage performance catalog score that was the fuel for this thread, got us the original 1981 Wiseco part number to request a new batch from:

In conjunction with this, someone may need to buy a fresh uncompressed gs650 stock head gasket and send it to Cometic and have them make a 65mm bore version of it. Unless of course they already have a CAD drawing/gasket scan & specs on file.

Potentially a Multi Layer Steel gasket with a delete on the cam chain tunnel o-ring and oil pressure seals on the outer studs would be the better bet, but that is up for debate. MLS is usually the best, but are typically the most sensitive to head warpage and surface imperfections. A fresh milling to clean up any imperfections or warpage may be in order, or at least a very good scrubbing with a rag,rubber gloves, & laquer thinner and then a masking tape job on the cylinder bores and outer cylinder block surfaces, as well as same on head & combustion chambers, then 1 or 2 light fogging coats on all gasket surfaces & gasket of copper coat or Ray's recommendation (blue stuff, wasn't it? Hylomar?) in a clean dust free environment and then immediate install after it has tacked up.

I think the MLS is the best way to go personally. Suzuki replaced the composite GS850 & GS1000 gasket part numbers as obsolete and superceded with the larger bore GS1100G Multi Layer Steel gasket's part number, which I'm running with zero problems in my 72mm GS750-920cc with decking/milling both block and head, & permatex copper coat. The 1100G does not use a cam chain tunnel rectangular o-ring seal or oil passage seals on the outer studs, where the original gs850&gs1000 gaskets did. I was instructed by members here to not fit the tunnel o-ring in, & have had zero problems. I think the gasket may overlap into the area where the o-ring goes, so the gasket would have to be specifically designed for using in place of the oil pressure seals and cam chain tunnel o-rings.

 

[tkent02]

I'm in. One set for sure, but if it takes another set or two to get the the next price point I'll do that.

Too bad, I had a Suzuki 650 gasket, but I just put it in the engine and torqued it down. A still have an aftermarket one, but it's probably not good enough.

 

[Chuck78]

I'm in on one set, but unless someone wants to buy a nice freshly honed good useable bore 650 cylinder, new OEM piston rings, & great shape OEM pistons, it's gonna take me a few paychecks to get there. House rehab funds, doctor bills from a broken wrist, and a few purchases for my GS-powered Rickman CR900 build have already eaten up my funds... time to cash out some other collectible assets next week so it seems.

Forum newbie drey6 (veteran poster on dotheton.com, new GS project owner) will be interested as well if enough time elapses before the order date.

Boonton Mike will probably chime in here as well.

Ace and Tom, how soon were you guys trying to get some sets in hand? Seems like you're both fired up and wrenching to get them running ASAP.

Waiting a bit will allow others time to see what deal we are arranging, and allow more a chance to get in on the first order to get a better price for all of us.

 

[Chuck78]

Ace, did they say they are good to go solely with the K740 part #, as in they definitely already have all the drawings & specs needed?

If so, this is AWESOME.

I wonder if they can make some adjustments to current drsigns, as in if I wanted a 71mm version of the 69mm gs750-844cc piston. Who was the person you spoke to? I may need to call them and see about that, as by May-June, I'll be needing 6 of those 894cc pistons for my gs425 & Rickman GS750...

 

[Chuck78]

Andy/etc:

http://www.cometic.com/custom-gaskets.aspx

 

[tkent02]

I'm in on one set, but unless someone wants to buy a nice freshly honed good useable bore 650 cylinder, new OEM piston rings, & great shape OEM pistons, it's gonna take me a few paychecks to get there.

PM on the way...

Ace and Tom, how soon were you guys trying to get some sets in hand? Seems like you're both fired up and wrenching to get them running ASAP.

Not in a hurry at all, but if this deal happens I do NOT want to miss out on it.

 

[duaneage]

It's nice to see the 650 getting some respect. I've got a complete 660G engine, another cylinder set, and a 650 head I'd like to sell. PM me if interested

 

[Ace07]

Hey Chuck,

I only had about ten minutes to talk to the guy today. He was very helpful though. Whenever I told him "I was wanting a big bore set for a Suzuki GS650" he laughed and said "yes we used to make them about a 100 years ago". He then told me I wouldn't be any problem to make any more of them, and he gave me the extension of a gentleman named AL. I will call him tomorrow and see if he can give me more details. I would like to get the order in half-way soon, but I also want to wait so more people can jump on this opportunity and I am a little short on cash as well. If we do go ahead with this group buy, how does the money exchange work? I know I don't have the money to front the cost of that many pistons. Ha ha ha

Since you sent me the link on a custom head gasket, I am guessing there is not a gasket already being made for this application. Am I correct? ha ha

Like I said in my first post guys, I have never done anything like this before, so if there are some other things we need to look into, please post them.

 

[Ace07]

Ok guys I called cometic today, and they do have some patterns on hand, but the guy sounded unsure of the patterns. He also told me that they would not be able to do a MLS (multi-layered-steel) gasket, because the tooling would cost to much. He did say that they had the 750 pattern as well, but I don't think they have the tooling for it either and if I remember correctly the 750 head is a different pattern and size compared to the 650 head. Instead of the MLS gasket they said that they could do a composite or a copper gasket, because they do not require any tooling to get it set up, but again I thing the patterns were only for 63mm pistons.

Chuck- that gasket you sent me the link on was a wiseco brand gasket. Would there be anything wrong with asking them?

 

[tkent02]

The 750 is a completely different animal, much wider spacing between cylinders.
Which is better, composite or copper?

 

[Chuck78]

racers use copper, but I don't know if they have o-ring cylinder modifications done for copper or not. I know the copper gaskets are considered to be reusable, where the others are not. correct me if I am wrong, but I believe copper is preferred by racers but not used on the street because it does not last in the long term. Maybe that is more for water cooled engines, I don't know.

650 and 750 have completely different bore spacings, as Tom said.

I highly doubt Wiseco will want to make any gaskets, I'm sure they were just out sourced to begin with.

Here is mine:

 

[Ace07]

Ok I just got off the phone with Al at wiseco. He told me they should have enough data to recreate the pistons, and he even used the same kit number from the scan that chuck posted. That means Wiseco does have the information to make the piston from way back when. He told me all the data was written down on information cards, and it took the engineers an hour or so to find the right data. I also asked if they made head gaskets still, and he said they don't, so we will have to go with Cometic he said. Are trying to sell that head gasket Chuck?

 

[Ace07]

Oh also if we order 25 or more pistons the price would drop to the $95-$100 range.

 

[Chuck78]

Oh yeah let's get 7+ people intetested to get the price down! If we can get it down to $95 for piston that would make it much more doable for me. The wife told me today no spending money even though it was for her bike! So I guess I have to sell the 650 pistons and cylinders that I have that are good standard bore, and the original Morris Mag wheel off the Rickman that I don't have a match for or desire to run a 2.15 X 18 skinny rear... getting creative with the financing so that this project doesn't put me out any.


No, not selling that head gasket. There is the one I linked still for sale for $44.95, same part # (w3165?), photo is just a default head gasket photo, not the actual product.

 

[Chuck78]

Can you give me Al's phone number and extension, so that I can contact him when it comes time to do the 475cc gs425 racer and the 894cc GS750 engine for the Rickman?

I'm hoping they will be willing to re-engineer a 71mm 10.5:1 version of their GS750 69mm 844cc piston, as the guy that had the $680 one-off set of 71mm 894cc 11:1 JE Pistons made lost interest in bikes and never got back to me with his JE order # so that I could re-order the same...
I need 6 of those pistons for the 2 bikes. If I could get 2 other people interested, $500 is a better price than the JE's for sure, but JE are maybe slightly nicer. Can't afford Carillo/CP...

 

[Ace07]

Ha ha I knew you were not going to sell the gasket. I was just trying to be funny. Als number is 4404973105. That's the number he called me with. I will get the other number with the extension tomorrow at work. Do you have any good recruitment ideas? And how we will pool money?

 

[Ace07]

Hey Chuck here is the number that I called to get ahold of AL 1-800-321-1364 ext: 3105. This is just to make sure I gave you the correct number yesterday. Also I have started a google docs excel spread sheet to keep track of the number of sets of pistons everyone wants. Just to clarify I am considering a "set" 4 piston assemblies, because a bike requires 4 pistons. Here is the count so far:

Chuck78: 1 set
Ace07: 1 set
Tkent02: 1 set

That brings us up to 12 pistons so far, so if you guys know anyone who wants some pistons please have them post on here and I will add their name to the list.

 

[boontonmike]

I'm in for a set as of now.