Power consumption and R/R ponderings

[arie]

We know that our bikes are under powered, while at high speed have to blow off extra power through heat via the R/R

The though occurs { please correct me if I'm mistaken} that an alternative might be to have extra lights that are turned on when cruising, so that they eat up the power instead of over working the r/r.

my idea is to wire a relay into the signal that lights the "5" on the gear indicator, so that in 5th gear extra light{s} go on, taking the load off the r/r.

would this work? would it do what I think it would do?
where in the wiring would someone suggest this be done?

thoughts?

:idea:

 

[posplayr]

Interesting thought.This is an extension of the Suzuki concept of opening a leg of the stator when the lights were off.

The power generation is More related to RPM than being in 5th gear. So the Tach would be a better source of control.

Not sure having light going on and off as you shift gears is a good idea so some other load may be better. A DC power resistor (say 25-50 watts) might be better if you can actually get the heat out of it. So a Tach controlled heating element???? Might work. I think I would just rely on a new stator and a FET based regulator. It seems to work well enough

 

[PCH82]

One thing you could do is put a thermoswitch on the r/r heatsink, and use that to trigger a relay that will send juice through a resistor grid.

 

[posplayr]

One thing you could do is put a thermoswitch on the r/r heatsink, and use that to trigger a relay that will send juice through a resistor grid.

That actually makes the most sense but alas there may be an issue.

The thermoswich would need to be differential so that the temp rise due to power dissipation was measured independent of ambient.

Alternatively the R/R control signal could be mimicked (the one internal to the R/R which is a zenor and resistor divider) but do it outside the R/R. In either case, you would need different setpoint and different resistive loads to switch in as the voltage continued to climb.

A simple approach would use a 10 watt and 20 watt resistor and then the R/R could be offloaded with 0, 10, 20 and 30 watts. You would also need a little hysteresis and logic to avoid too much cycling.

 

[trippivot]

We know that our bikes are under powered, while at high speed have to blow off extra power through heat via the R/R

:idea:

no no no they are over powered!! burnt R&R's boiled dry batteries, melted connections! sound familiar?

3 phase P.M.S. dynamo make TOO MUCH POWER that has to be gated off to ground equating to heat.

I was chasing a repeat apparent no-charging problem with a 80 1100 16V rat bike. total clapper and knackered wiring - til I was done with it. owner had both beams on at ALL times!! I totally missed this tiny detail the first couple times it came back. stator makes great unloaded AC on all 3 legs! R&R checks both biases good. battery load tested. battery voltage was a tiny bit low when running but acceptable. customer brings it back 2 days later battery won't start bike.

Now get a volt meter AND and an Ammeter put it on as a dash addition. so a fellow can real time monitor it.

next wire the head light so you can switch the hi-beam AND the low beam to light at once.

remember proper wiring has one beam on at a time.

the total amp load of a 55/60 halogen beam running both at the same time will slowly dis-charge your bike over a 2-3 day time. average riding.

switch on and off the excessive electricity and the heat will be at the headlight not at the R&R a light bulb is so much cheaper than a R&R.

like the idea?

 

[posplayr]

no no no they are over powered!! burnt R&R's boiled dry batteries, melted connections! sound familiar?

3 phase P.M.S. dynamo make TOO MUCH POWER that has to be gated off to ground equating to heat.

I was chasing a repeat apparent no-charging problem with a 80 1100 16V rat bike. total clapper and knackered wiring - til I was done with it. owner had both beams on at ALL times!! I totally missed this tiny detail the first couple times it came back. stator makes great unloaded AC on all 3 legs! R&R checks both biases good. battery load tested. battery voltage was a tiny bit low when running but acceptable. customer brings it back 2 days later battery won't start bike.

Now get a volt meter AND and an Ammeter put it on as a dash addition. so a fellow can real time monitor it.

next wire the head light so you can switch the hi-beam AND the low beam to light at once.

remember proper wiring has one beam on at a time.

the total amp load of a 55/60 halogen beam running both at the same time will slowly dis-charge your bike over a 2-3 day time. average riding.

switch on and off the excessive electricity and the heat will be at the headlight not at the R&R a light bulb is so much cheaper than a R&R.

like the idea?

Other than your charging travails, you reinvented arie's idea.

 

[Richsuz]

Can you provide execution procodures? Theoretically sounds good, but, people like me need implementation procedures. Diagrams? parts lists?

 

[duaneage]

My bike charges just fine, has for years.

 

[spyug]

Is this really a problem? I know that R/R fail from time to time but reading this post makes it seem that some are changing them out 2 or 3 times a year.

I'm I living in a cave or am I another one of the lucky ones witha somewhat correctly working charging system?

Just wondering.
Cheers
Spyug

 

[Richsuz]

Mine is charging fine also. I was more interested in making use of the "extra power lost to heat". Adding more light if possible. It's such a shame that we loose that extra energy to heat desipation, when it could have a perfect good use to it.

 

[koolaid_kid]

spyug, bwringer and I went through my charging system last year (see sig). It had upgraded electrics compared to what he has seen on other, older bikes. We did find some connectors under the seat that clearly had overheated (therefore, had more power passing through them than they were designed for). I cleaned them very well, put dielectric grease in them, and then sealed them from the elements. Perhaps your bike, same year, also has upgraded electrics. Richsuz, no telling for you, since your bike model and year are not in your sig.

 

[Richsuz]

Sorry Koolaid Kid, I have done the signature update several times and never seems to take.

I got a 1983 GS650GL with about 32,000 miles on it

oh, oh, oh, I guess it updated this time, ray:

 

[koolaid_kid]

Thanks, it took this time. It just makes it difficult for others when they have to guess what you are riding.
You might also have the updated electrics. Perhaps bwringer can chime in. Of course, he may say that I'm full of it also, but I'm used to it.

 

[posplayr]

Mine is charging fine also. I was more interested in making use of the "extra power lost to heat". Adding more light if possible. It's such a shame that we loose that extra energy to heat desipation, when it could have a perfect good use to it.

You can squeeze a little more power out of a FET based R/R and dump the SCR controlled type.

 

[arie]

I like the thread, and have to agree with Richsuz - the bike puts out nominal voltage at idle and then at operating rpms too much.

rather than rely on the r/r completely, it seems - as stated before - a waste to not use the extra for something useful rather than venting as heat. { and taxing the elctronics of the r/r }

so as Richsuz says, if someone could come up with a schematic...

I think my original idea was sound: if a relay was tripped coincident with the bike being in 5th gear { the presumption being at highway speed/high rpms } that would take some load off the r/r while not draining the battery at red lights.

I don't know about you all, but there are a LOT of lights where I am. { you guys do stop at yours, don't you? <ggg> }

and yes, sad to say, i have had a lot of problems and been through a lot of r/rs

but the temperature is perfect for riding now!

 

[posplayr]

I like the thread, and have to agree with Richsuz - the bike puts out nominal voltage at idle and then at operating rpms too much.

rather than rely on the r/r completely, it seems - as stated before - a waste to not use the extra for something useful rather than venting as heat. { and taxing the elctronics of the r/r }

so as Richsuz says, if someone could come up with a schematic...

I think my original idea was sound: if a relay was tripped coincident with the bike being in 5th gear { the presumption being at highway speed/high rpms } that would take some load off the r/r while not draining the battery at red lights.

I don't know about you all, but there are a LOT of lights where I am. { you guys do stop at yours, don't you? <ggg> }

and yes, sad to say, i have had a lot of problems and been through a lot of r/rs

but the temperature is perfect for riding now!

The 5th gear indicator is more than likely a switch to ground when in 5th. The wire to the dash is going to a light that is hot all the time and just needs that ground to turn it on.

Use the exact same scheme as a lowside control on a power relay.

Something like the attached. You will need to figure out how much of a switched load to use. :|

This is high side control of the light; it could also be done lowside.

 

[tkent02]

Is this really a problem? I know that R/R fail from time to time but reading this post makes it seem that some are changing them out 2 or 3 times a year.

I'm I living in a cave or am I another one of the lucky ones witha somewhat correctly working charging system?

Just wondering.
Cheers
Spyug

I have not had a charging system failure, 20 or so GSes over thirty years. I have bought a few with electrical problems but they have all been fixed with cleaning connectors.

I clean all the connections every bike I get, so far it has worked.

 

[DPage]

I know these bikes don't have the best electrical systems, but Duaneage R/R's improve your odds greatly, and they don't require any more wiring. More electrical pieces are just one more thing to break (and then diagnose) when something goes wrong. Just my 2 cents.

 

[posplayr]

I have bought a few with electrical problems but they have all been fixed with cleaning connectors.

.

Amen Amen and once more Amen;

Did someone mention cleanring connections (especially all 5 connections to the R/R)