Progressive Springs, Band-aids, & Kleenex

[Bass Man]

So being a newbie in this (even though I'm the OO of an 81GS), I'm trying to understand all of the comments, jargon, and opinions being given around the topic of fork springs. 'Progressives' are mentioned as being the way to go in fork springs (by everyone who do not sell standard springs, that is). But are you talking about Progressive brand springs, or progressive style, variable pitch springs in general? Hence the reference to Band-aids and Kleenex; names that are synonymous to adhesive bandages and facial tissues.

My 81 GS850GX has the stock progressive (intentional lower case p) springs in the forks. Not sure if all of the GS's came with progressive springs? Flyboy has a great picture in the GS1100 thread, of his forks apart and they are clearly progressive springs. Flyboy, are they OEM springs?

Finaly, since I'm not an aggressive rider, and I bought the GS because I like the way it rides, I guess I dont see a need to modify the suspension to make it ride different/better/etc. If you wanted a differently handling bike, you should have bought a different bike! I have to beleive, all cost reducing and corner cutting aside, the Suzuki engineers designed the best bikes they could, and enjoying the stock ride is an homage to their efforts!

So that's the end of my rant. I'll save the Band-aids for the busted knuckles, and the Kleenex for the spilt beer!

Cheers!

 

[JEEPRUSTY]

There is no use crying over spilt beer.

I think most are refering to the brand name.
My springs are stock and not progressive or Progressive's

 

[almarconi]

Finaly, since I'm not an aggressive rider, and I bought the GS because I like the way it rides, I guess I dont see a need to modify the suspension to make it ride different/better/etc.

I too am not an aggressive rider but Progressive brand fork springs, new fork oil and progressive rear shocks make a world of difference in the way the bike handles. I modified my suspension for safety and comfort. If you are riding on stock springs/shocks, you are riding on 30yr old parts. Do you also believe in riding on 30 year old tires because they "look" good?

 

[bbjumper]

AL,

Love this post, got all stock stuff on my 82 850G myself and looking to improve the ride for those long days in the saddle. Progressive springs up front for sure but what about the rear?



p

 

[Bass Man]

I'm embarassed to say that my tires ARE 30 years old. Not OEM, but damn near. The bike has been collecting dust since 88, just getting it back on the road this summer. Now riding season is nearly done here in NH, so will be doing some rebuilds/repairs/refitting this winter, including the tires for obvious safety reasons. If the springs are outside their service limit, will replace them too, probably with stock if available.

Hey bbjumper, I bought this bike at Motorcycle City there in Scottsdale; are they still around? Used to be right across the street from Spatula City...

Cheers!

 

[twr1776]

Yesterday 09:02 PM almarconi Quote:
Finaly, since I'm not an aggressive rider, and I bought the GS because I like the way it rides, I guess I dont see a need to modify the suspension to make it ride different/better/etc.

I too am not an aggressive rider but Progressive brand fork springs, new fork oil and progressive rear shocks make a world of difference in the way the bike handles. I modified my suspension for safety and comfort. If you are riding on stock springs/shocks, you are riding on 30yr old parts.

+1000

No matter what your "riding style" is IMHO 30 year old suspension bits are dangerous. The OEM's were barely passable when new and 30 years on the bike have not made them any better.

Most here go with Progressive or Sonics on the front and Progressive, Hagons, or Ikons if the budget allows on the back. Last time I checked it starts at about $ 300 for all new suspension and it is worth every penny. Go with a modern tire design with the new suspension and you will be AMAZED at the difference in handling.

 

[Flyboy]

Yes Bass Man, those are the original springs, been in there since she came out the factory.
As long as the springs are still within service limits, there is nothing wrong with them, they are in no way more dangerous than new ones.

 

[Bass Man]

Thanks for the insightful replies. I tend to agree with Flyboy; 30 year old springs are not inferior if still within spec. On my 81, they have only been ridden 19000 miles, hardly the point you would normally start to think about changing them out under average wear & tear (unless of course, you were wanting to change the ride, 'nuff said about that!).

The tires, on the other hand, will be getting repkaced with current tread designs and compounds. The old Dunlops 'look' OK (no cracks, good tread)but the rubber is hard, and a blow-out waiting to happen.

Cheers!

 

[almarconi]

Thanks for the insightful replies. I tend to agree with Flyboy; 30 year old springs are not inferior if still within spec. On my 81, they have only been ridden 19000 miles, hardly the point you would normally start to think about changing them out under average wear & tear (unless of course, you were wanting to change the ride, 'nuff said about that!).

My L has only 13k miles on it, the difference between stock and aftermarket suspension upgrades is like night and day. Before the rear end was all over the road, front end was mushy, now it feels like it rides on rails. You probably can't feel a difference in the suspension until you either change the parts or ride on a bike that has been changed. To each his own, its your bike. For me it was well worth the price for the upgrades.

 

[Flyboy]

Upgrade yes, agreed, after market progressive springs will out perform the stock springs, no question.
But my point was that 30 year old stock springs that are still within service limits are no worse than new stock springs off the shelf.
Rear shocks however are another story, they do degrade with use and should be replaced, a 30 year old pair of shocks are not going to handle like a new pair.
I remember hearing or reading somewhere that they were good for 30k - 40k km.

 

[RichDesmond]

...But my point was that 30 year old stock springs that are still within service limits are no worse than new stock springs off the shelf...

This is true, but that doesn't mean they were any good to start with. A lot of people make the reasonable assumption that the Japanese engineers are obviously competent and would have chosen spring rates well matched to the bike's intended use. Unfortunately, that's not true.
An example:
A few years ago Kawasaki replaced the EX500 with the Ninja 650. Same basic type of bike, same market segment, same sort of typical buyer. Both bikes weighed in the low 400's, 420-430 with gas. For that weight, a spring in the 0.80-0.85 range would be good for general street use for most people.
The EX500 had 0.58 springs. Waaay too soft, not even enough for just the weight of the bike, let alone a rider. This was what most Japanese bikes were like up until a few years ago.
The Ninja 650 has a progressive spring, it starts at 1.2 and goes up to 1.6. This is insanely stiff, significantly more spring than we put in Gold Wings, a bike that weighs over 800lbs.
Why?? I have no idea. While there are different ways to balance spring and damping rates to achieve a given end, no competent suspension tuner would be anywhere near either of those rates, for any rider.
The bottom line is that you can't assume that stock is good. In fact, the odds are that it's crap.

 

[Flyboy]

Hence my opening statement..

Upgrade yes, agreed, after market progressive springs will out perform the stock springs, no question.

 

[Steel Toed Tank]

I replaced my stock springs with Sonics and like everyone says, the difference is pretty incredible.
Now that I have experienced the difference, I wouldn't ride the way I do on an old bike with stock springs.

Tank

 

[Bass Man]

A lot of people make the reasonable assumption that the Japanese engineers are obviously competent and would have chosen spring rates well matched to the bike's intended use. Unfortunately, that's not true...
...The bottom line is that you can't assume that stock is good. In fact, the odds are that it's crap.

Rich, granted, the manufacturers dont always make the right decisions. The numerous recalls in the automotive industry attest to that. As I said in my earlier post, cost reductions and corner cutting do take place. As an engineer in a small manufacturing company, I live with those realities every day. OK, I'm an electrical engineer, but I still know which end of the wrench to hold (the one that doesn't fit on the nut!).

However, I have not seen or experienced this to be the case with the GS's, particularly the 850 that I ride, either in these forums, or the press at the time that I bought it, in 1981. The consensus is that these are generally well-engineered, reliable machines. Including the suspension.

Cheers!

 

[RichDesmond]

Rich, granted, the manufacturers dont always make the right decisions. The numerous recalls in the automotive industry attest to that. As I said in my earlier post, cost reductions and corner cutting do take place. As an engineer in a small manufacturing company, I live with those realities every day. OK, I'm an electrical engineer, but I still know which end of the wrench to hold (the one that doesn't fit on the nut!).

However, I have not seen or experienced this to be the case with the GS's, particularly the 850 that I ride, either in these forums, or the press at the time that I bought it, in 1981. The consensus is that these are generally well-engineered, reliable machines. Including the suspension.

Cheers!

Having owned an 850, I'll agree that overall it's a great bike. The suspension, while good in comparison to the competition when it was built, can definitely be made a lot better.

 

[LarryJ]

The other aspect of ride & handling are the tires. Modern tires are so much better than what was available 30yrs ago. Conti Go's, BS Spitfires &B45's, etc. are light years ahead of what was originally put on these bikes, no one should be riding on old junk.

 

[Mr. Sinister]

Found this thread in a search. What are everyone's thoughts on Ron Ayers progressive fork springs? Looks like around $70 for a set. http://www.ronayers.com/ProductDetails/N/117871/SKU/1518031

 

[koolaid_kid]

Those are not Ron Ayer's, he is selling the springs from Progressive Suspension. So they are the real deal and one of the top choices for GS riders.

 

[Steve]

Bass Man, a couple other things to consider about your OEM springs:

They have been sitting in the fork tubes under compression for 31 years. They have probably lost some of their "spring" in the process. AND, they were designed to be used with a modest amount of (additional) air in the forks, to add to the overall spring rate. Many of us have gone to Progressive or Sonic springs to upgrade the front suspension. The overall rate is a bit higher than stock, but isn't much more than the sum of the steel springs and the air. The advantage of that is that you don't have to rely on additional air to have the proper rate, but still have the air that is trapped in there to add a bit more bottoming resistance.

.

 

[Mr. Sinister]

Those are not Ron Ayer's, he is selling the springs from Progressive Suspension. So they are the real deal and one of the top choices for GS riders.

Thanks for the info!!

So say I'm a 240 pound guy, and I will be doing mostly commuting duty, but on windy back roads. What should I be looking at as far as spring rates front and rear? I would like to go with progressives fore and aft, but I definitely want to tighten up the handling first and foremost.