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Proper way to re-torque a bolt.

KEITH KRAUSE

KEITH KRAUSE

Forum Guru
Past Site Supporter
TGSR Superstar
Charter Member
Just a quick tip, mostly for the "newbies".
When you check the torque on your bolts, ALWAYS loosen them just a little bit first, then torque them down. After some time, bolts can become "stuck" and if you just torque them the way they are you will get a false high setting.
Also, if there is corrosion or rust, you need to clean them up to get an accurate setting. Badly corroded or rusted bolts/hardware may need replacing to avoid breaking under torque. And buy a quality torque wrench. The cheap "pointer" kinds are a waste of money. Buy one that "clicks", the twist and lock kind.
A WORD OF CAUTION: when checking the torque on HEAD bolts/nuts, loosen them just a bit, "cracking" them loose. You don't want to cause leaks by loosening them too much. Then re-torque.
 
Thanks for the advice.

Thanks for the advice.

I wouldn't have thought of that, but it makes sense.

Epecially when you consider that static and dynamic torque are 2 different things becuase of the differences between static and dynamic friction. If you loosen them 1st, then you are measuring the dynamic torque which would seem to be what we're interested in. If you start with them tight, your are measuring the static torque, until they move.

Ok, I'm a geek.... :roll: .

Thanks again,

Terry
 
Geeks rule the world, Terry. Never apologize for that, but be proud.

Former math teacher and maker of geeks,

Nick
 
Nick Diaz said:
Geeks rule the world, Terry. Never apologize for that, but be proud.

Former math teacher and maker of geeks,

Nick
Click to expand...



Fortunately, Nick's students never became endeered :wink: :roll: to him
 
The cheap "pointer" kinds are a waste of money.
Click to expand...
Saying that beam type torque wrenches are a waste of money is a bit harsh and not accurate. Mechanics 'got away' with using them for decades before the new models arrived. The new ones are in most cases more accurate and easier to use, but that doesn't take away from their utility and value.

What we really want to measure when we assemble a motor is the 'stretch' of the bolt. Torque an indicator of that and is an approximation as such. What you are then doing is getting as accurate a measurement of an approximation as you can. Boggles the mind.
 
Nick Diaz said:
Geeks rule the world, Terry. Never apologize for that, but be proud. Former math teacher and maker of geeks
Click to expand...

Cool, I have a Master's in Mathematics. :). I'd be happy if I was king of my house, forget the world...

Terry
 
Swanny said:
The cheap "pointer" kinds are a waste of money.
Click to expand...
Saying that beam type torque wrenches are a waste of money is a bit harsh and not accurate. Mechanics 'got away' with using them for decades before the new models arrived. The new ones are in most cases more accurate and easier to use, but that doesn't take away from their utility and value.
Click to expand...

I only give advice that I would follow. I would not trust or use a 'pointer' torque wrench on anything. We have 'got away' with using a lot of things in the past, but when something becomes obsolete and you KNOW there's an improved version that will work better for you, then you should use it.
You said it yourself, the newer 'click' type torque wrenches are more accurate and easier to use. Why would you use something else?
The only time I use my 30 year old pointer wrench anymore is for a breaker bar.
 
Why would you use something else?
Click to expand...
You would use the beam type if money is an issue. As I said before, there is nothing wrong with the old beam type wrenchs. Many vehicles have been built with them - many, many, many hp type and racers.

The first thing you need to understand is that what we are trying to do is measure the stretch of the bolt. Torque is just used as a cross reference to that since stretch is a hard measurement to get at. Stretch is affected by many things and is not a constant for bolts - even the same type and grade. So - torque is not an absolute measurement of 'stretch' - just an approximation. Remember, stretch is what we are after.

Longevity of an engine has infinitely more to do with the skills of the builder than the type of torque wrench.

The only time I use my 30 year old pointer wrench anymore is for a breaker bar.
Click to expand...
Why would you do that - it isn't long enough for a breaker bar and it has flex. A very poor breaker bar IMHO. Do you use screw drivers as pry bars and chisels too? Either you are trying to make a point - or you are not as bright as I thought.
 
The only time I use my 30 year old pointer wrench anymore is for a breaker bar.
Click to expand...
Why would you do that - it isn't long enough for a breaker bar and it has flex. A very poor breaker bar IMHO. Do you use screw drivers as pry bars and chisels too? Either you are trying to make a point - or you are not as bright as I thought.[/quote]

Swanny, if it makes you feel better, use any wrench you like. In our previous replies we both agreed the click type are more accurate. That's what I'll use.
As for my old pointer wrench being a poor breaking bar, it works pretty good on lug nuts and other 100 ft/lb stuff.
NO, I don't use screwdrivers as pry bars and chisels. I did when I was 15, broke off a few tips too.
NO, I'm not trying to make a point, but it appears you are.
I made a topic to try to help someone, not to argue about torque wrenches.
And as for you taking this to another level and questioning how bright I am, I'd say I'm average, no more, no less.
It's easy to insult me when you're 1,000 miles away.
 
Keith, I agree you were trying to help someone with retorquing, but you also added the comments about beam type bars being worthless. That in turn opened the discussion up on this track.

I pointed out several times that when tightening bolts it is stretch you are after, not torque. The relationship is not exact. You ignored this point. The last comment was probably not necessary.

You are fixated strictly on accuracy, when the torque wrench does not build the motor. I'll take an expert mechanic with a set of open end wrenches over a novice with a torque wrench any day.

If money is an issue, there is nothing wrong with a beam type torue wrench. As a matter of fact, you would be far better off spending the money you saved on the 'clicker' and buying a set of tap and dies. You can't get an accurate torque reading without first cleaning the mating surfaces.

I agree, the insult at the end was easy at 1000 miles. It would be easy in the same room also. I don't say anything in these forums I would not say face-to-face.
 
I don't think I'm fixated on accuracy, I just prefer to use the most accurate tool.
It's too bad you have to take a simple topic and make it a personal thing.
It's also too bad you feel the need to throw this tough guy stuff at me.
You don't know me and I don't know you. You don't have any way of knowing what you would say if we were in the same room.
All this, because of a torque wrench comment. Do other peoples opinions get you so worked up?
 
I talked to some expert mechanics around here for cars, diesels, and motorcycles, and they all agree that they would much rather have a clicker type. The general consensus was that the beam type are OK for wide torque tolerance ranges in the upper end, i.e. 75 or more pounds. I'm not trying to refute or support anyone, but if the question is whether or not the clicker type is significantly better, the answer seems to be that it is.

Harrison
 
Tough guy? :lol: So, if you say what's on your mind you are a tough guy?

As for the mechanics - sure - who whouldn't rather have a clicker than a beam type? Try using a beam type in a hard to get to place where you can't read the dial.

As for accuracy, I sand by my earlier statements. Beam type have been used to build many engines that have been used in Indy, Bonneville, etc. If accuracy is the issue, how did those motors survive?

If money was a concern, I would buy a beam type and tap and die set over the clicker any day of the week. Using these tools I would get a far more accurate reading of torque than just using the clicker.

Which brings us to another point. Retorquing the heads after many years of service will not give accurate torque readings. The more accurate clicker type will give an accurate reading of torque on a set of dirty, corroded threads. Don't expect results any better than using a beam type.
 
When I make a topic that is meant to help someone, I'm like anybody else, I'm going to word it based on my own experience and my own situation. It would take too much time to include "if, ands or buts" to try to cover everyone's different situation. My posts are often long as it is.
My torque wrench is an improved design over the pointer type, I can afford it, I have 3 of them to cover all ranges. I did not enjoy spending the money but I feel they're a good investment. I used to be notorious for over tightening things, so I bought them. I don't expect anyone to run out and buy one just because I SUGGESTED it. I realize some people don't have ANY tools.
It's true that pointer type wrenches were once the only choice available and they were a lot more accurate than just guessing. They had their time.
Now there's an improved tool, that's all. I'm not going to suggest using an inferior tool.
I noticed before you criticized another one of my topics, "Proper way to clean and lube a chain." This also was meant to try to help people, especially new owners. But you had to cut it up and say don't take the chain off. If that's the way you want to do it, fine. The way you do it is messier and less effective and you don't save any time by not wanting to take the master link off. That's just rushing the job. ANY chain manufacturer, dealer or good repair shop will say take the chain off.
Suggesting an IMPROVEMENT in someone's help topic is cool, it helps even more. But cutting up someone's topic just because you don't want to do it the right way is not helping anyone.
I don't take short cuts when working on my bike and I don't use screwdrivers for pry bars, as you asked earlier. I do what's best for the bike. I've owned my bike since new and this is the way I will always do things. Check out my bike, just click the WWW symbol below. It's 24 years old and has 118,000 miles and counting. I let the bike speak for my work habits.
I'll continue to make help topics, with other peoples best interests in mind.
 
Hmm, I guess this isn't really a forum, but the Keith Krause advanced school of motorcycle repair.

I suggest you go back and look at what I said in the 'Proper way to clean a chain post'. Yes, I did question the necessity to remove the chain, but I also complimented you on the overall content of the post. And I still stand by both remarks. I think if you post on a topic with the title 'Proper anything' then everyone in here should have a chance to review it and make comments. It was a good post overall, if you think that I was being too harsh for questioning the necessity to remove the chain to clean it, then I guess I don't know what to say.

You seem to be very touchy when someone questions a portion of your posts. In the future I will take that into account.
 
I'm not touchy about someone questioning a part of my post, I'm touchy about someone trying to degrade it, even though all the information is true.
At least in the cases of torque wrenches and chain maintenance, you have lower standards. You criticize my standards only because you don't want to raise your own. Then you get defensive because you know you're wrong, but you keep trying to justify past comments. You even try insulting someone in an attempt to make them see things your way.
Your 'Keith Krause advanced school of MC repair' is just more of your defensive BS. Because I choose to do things the right way, you come up with words like that?
This is an open forum. It is meant to help. All you've done is disrupt it. You added your 2 cents and that's all it's worth.
This is my 500th post and you're the only negative experience I've had here. It's good to be open minded, you should try it sometime.
 
Keith, when you say that 'you try to do this the right way' and 'I have lower standards' from this last post and 'The cheap "pointer" kinds are a waste of money.' from the first post, are exactly the kind of comments that I was trying to correct.

Your post does not imply, it states in a factual manner that what you say is absolutely correct. You do not say 'in my opinion, the cheap ...'. You state it as FACT. That is what I was trying to correct in your post.

My first reply to your orignal post was merely a correction of the 'fact' stating that beam wrenches are a waiste of money. You came back with the reply that you use them as breaker bars - I guess to show your displeasure at my comment.

I am amazed that I have been able to accomplish all I have while doing things the wrong way - as opposed to the right way. Earlier, you stated that you are of 'average intelligence, no more, no less'. If that is the case, try listening, maybe you will learn something.

I guess you still don't see that, and to tell you the truth, I don't care anymore. I'm done with this post. If you wnat to carry this on, PM me.
 
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