You have to get the spacers as close to the same length as possible to prevent it from pulling to one side or the other also.
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PVC spacer for front fork preload question...
- Thread starter Gregory
- Start date
Steve
GS Whisperer
I will find the start of the threads before there is any pressure on the bottom of the cap. :-k
Remove the spacer, thread the cap on a couple of turns. Remove it slowly, pulling UP while you unscrew it. Note the position of the cap when it is free of the threads, use a Sharpie to mark the edge of the cap where it lines up with something, like the gap in the triple clamp. Now, when you get the spacer back in there, just line up your Sharpie mark just a little to the left of the gap, push down and turn, knowing that it will be grabbing threads immediately.
.
G
Guest
Guest
Now, when you get the spacer back in there, just line up your Sharpie mark just a little to the left of the gap, push down and turn, knowing that it will be grabbing threads immediately.
.
Too slick, as usual!
Hey Rich, I thought I PM'd you about the springs last week and never heard back... if not, my question was whether I really needed to go through the whole rogamaro of taking the forks off as described in the instructions.
I decided that since I know the oil level is up to spec's. I can just add the springs and measure sag etc.
I really would rather just have a starting point of how you set yours up. What length spacer.. and do you put back in the stock spacers etc?
I also notice that the new sonic springs are shorter than the stock springs...that really surprised me.
I decided that since I know the oil level is up to spec's. I can just add the springs and measure sag etc.
I really would rather just have a starting point of how you set yours up. What length spacer.. and do you put back in the stock spacers etc?
I also notice that the new sonic springs are shorter than the stock springs...that really surprised me.
Hey Rich, I thought I PM'd you about the springs last week and never heard back... if not, my question was whether I really needed to go through the whole rogamaro of taking the forks off as described in the instructions.
I decided that since I know the oil level is up to spec's. I can just add the springs and measure sag etc.
I really would rather just have a starting point of how you set yours up. What length spacer.. and do you put back in the stock spacers etc?
I also notice that the new sonic springs are shorter than the stock springs...that really surprised me.
Hmmm, I thought I answered you...I must have messed up somewhere, sorry about that.
It really is best to take the forks off, and that's actually the easiest way to do it. You can just throw the new springs in, but it's a little harder to size the spacer and set the fork oil level. The stock level is generally not good with the new springs, you should set it to 115mm.
The spacer I can't give you a definite length on. Bikes vary, and sometimes the factory will make a change that affects the spacer length (top out spring length for instance) between model years that goes unnoticed, and undocumented anywhere except the parts fiche. As long as you end up with about 15-20mm of static preload you'll be fine.
Aftermarket springs are usually shorter than the stock ones. We can't make them the same as the stock length for both business and technical reasons.
If we had to stock a different set for every year and model our inventory would be 30-40 times what it is now, and the cost associated with that would greatly increase the price of the springs. At least double, probably more.
On the technical side, the stock length is wrong anyway. With the higher rate you need less preload, so the total spring/spacer length has to be shorter. Having the springs a significantly different length than stock forces the installer to follow the instructions and size the spacer correctly.
The two most common installation mistakes people make are using the stock oil amount/level, and sizing the the spacer so that the total spring/spacer length is the same as stock.
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ok back to the drawing board again. I hate having to go through all this but I guess I will be able to figure it out eventually.
pain in the ass to have to take off, put back on, test spring rate take caps off again set spacer size etc. .... I am all confused now...; should have just stayed with stiock springs with spacer..
pain in the ass to have to take off, put back on, test spring rate take caps off again set spacer size etc. .... I am all confused now...; should have just stayed with stiock springs with spacer..
Here are the instructions.... can anyone make heads or tails of this as it relates to a gs1000e? overwhelmed.
Changing Springs and Oil in Damper Rod Forks
This guide is intended to be a supplement to the factory manual, not a replacement for it. The factory manual is needed for proper torque specs and for any bike-specific procedures. When in doubt, please consult a qualified professional mechanic.
The first requirement is to have all the weight off the front wheel. If you have a centerstand, put the bike on it and jack up under the engine, so that the front wheel is off the ground. If your bike doesn’t have a centerstand, use a rear stand in conjunction with the type of front end stand that lifts from under the steering head.
1)Remove the calipers, front wheel, fender and anything else that’s attached to the forks.
2)If you have standard handlebars, unbolt them from the top triple clamp and move them forward. No need to remove any of the grips, cables or wires. If you have clip-on style bars loosen the clip-on pinch bolt(s) and any bolts that hold them to the upper triple. If they can be pulled off the fork tube, do so.
From here, do one side at a time, and the order of events is important.
3) Back the preload adjuster, if any, all the way out. If the forks have air caps, bleed the pressure.
4) Loosen the top triple bolt.
5) Remove the fork cap. Careful, there's going to be some force from the spring preload trying to pop the cap up.
6) Loosen the bottom triple clamp bolts and slide the fork leg out.
7) Remove the spring, spacer and any washers.
8) Dump the old oil, pumping the fork leg while it's inverted to make sure you've got all of it out. Refill, making sure you pump the fork through it's full stroke a few times to get all the air out of the bottom of the fork.
9) Cut the spacers. (see Note A)
10) Set the fork oil level.(Level is defined as the distance between the top of the fork tube and the top of the oil in the tube, and is set with the spring and spacer out, forks collapsed. Because of the way it’s measured, a smaller number means more oil.) A handy item for this is a turkey baster. Measure the desired distance from the tip up and mark that spot with a Sharpie or a piece of tape. Make sure that there’s a little more oil than needed in the tube, then align the mark with the top of the fork tube and suck any excess out. Put in the new spring, the washer that came with it, the spacer and the stock washer, if any. (see Note B.)
11) Re-install, reverse order as disassembly. Just be careful when putting the fork cap back on, they're easy to cross-thread.
12) Double check all bolts, and make sure to pump up the front brake before riding.
NOTE A: Cutting spacers
The purpose of the spacers is to provide the proper amount of pre-load on the springs. In general, street bikes need about ?” of pre-load, assuming that the spring rate is correct for the weight of the bike and rider. So the question is, how do we determine the right length for the spacer?
Take the fork cap, and if it has a pre-load adjustment, set it in the middle. Now measure the depth of the cap from the bottom to the base of the portion that sits against the top of the fork tube. Include any stock washer that will sit on top of the spacer. Basically we’re measuring the length of the portion that fits inside the fork tube.
Say for example that this length is 2”. If we cut the spacer so that with the spring, washer and spacer installed it came up flush with the top of the fork tube, when we installed the fork cap the spring would be compressed 2”. Too much. So we need to cut the spacer shorter to get the proper pre-load. In this case 1 ?” shorter. Easiest way to measure this is to put the spring, washer and uncut spacer in the extended fork leg. Mark the spacer tube even with the top of the fork tube. Pull the spacer out and measure 1 ?” down from the mark. Mark and cut from that point. Now, when you put the spring, washer and spacer in, the top of the spacer should be 1 ?” below the top of the fork tube. When the fork cap is installed, the 2” section inside the fork tube will compress the spring ?”. Voila, correct pre-load!! Just make sure you use the right numbers for you, not the ones in this example. Also, back the adjuster all the way back out before re-installing the fork cap, to make it easier to get the threads started. Re-set the adjuster to the middle position after everything is bolted back up.
NOTE B: Oil level
Oil level is difficult to give blanket advice on. Some bikes work best with the stock level, some benefit from less, others are better with more. A general rule is to set it fairly close to the amount of travel that the forks have. Most street bikes have 4.5 - 5 inches of travel, (about 115 - 130mm) so an oil level in that range works for most bikes. Some are different though; For example, the Kawasaki Concours uses a level of 150mm with our springs. If you have a question about your specific application, please e-mail us.
Changing Springs and Oil in Damper Rod Forks
This guide is intended to be a supplement to the factory manual, not a replacement for it. The factory manual is needed for proper torque specs and for any bike-specific procedures. When in doubt, please consult a qualified professional mechanic.
The first requirement is to have all the weight off the front wheel. If you have a centerstand, put the bike on it and jack up under the engine, so that the front wheel is off the ground. If your bike doesn’t have a centerstand, use a rear stand in conjunction with the type of front end stand that lifts from under the steering head.
1)Remove the calipers, front wheel, fender and anything else that’s attached to the forks.
2)If you have standard handlebars, unbolt them from the top triple clamp and move them forward. No need to remove any of the grips, cables or wires. If you have clip-on style bars loosen the clip-on pinch bolt(s) and any bolts that hold them to the upper triple. If they can be pulled off the fork tube, do so.
From here, do one side at a time, and the order of events is important.
3) Back the preload adjuster, if any, all the way out. If the forks have air caps, bleed the pressure.
4) Loosen the top triple bolt.
5) Remove the fork cap. Careful, there's going to be some force from the spring preload trying to pop the cap up.
6) Loosen the bottom triple clamp bolts and slide the fork leg out.
7) Remove the spring, spacer and any washers.
8) Dump the old oil, pumping the fork leg while it's inverted to make sure you've got all of it out. Refill, making sure you pump the fork through it's full stroke a few times to get all the air out of the bottom of the fork.
9) Cut the spacers. (see Note A)
10) Set the fork oil level.(Level is defined as the distance between the top of the fork tube and the top of the oil in the tube, and is set with the spring and spacer out, forks collapsed. Because of the way it’s measured, a smaller number means more oil.) A handy item for this is a turkey baster. Measure the desired distance from the tip up and mark that spot with a Sharpie or a piece of tape. Make sure that there’s a little more oil than needed in the tube, then align the mark with the top of the fork tube and suck any excess out. Put in the new spring, the washer that came with it, the spacer and the stock washer, if any. (see Note B.)
11) Re-install, reverse order as disassembly. Just be careful when putting the fork cap back on, they're easy to cross-thread.
12) Double check all bolts, and make sure to pump up the front brake before riding.
NOTE A: Cutting spacers
The purpose of the spacers is to provide the proper amount of pre-load on the springs. In general, street bikes need about ?” of pre-load, assuming that the spring rate is correct for the weight of the bike and rider. So the question is, how do we determine the right length for the spacer?
Take the fork cap, and if it has a pre-load adjustment, set it in the middle. Now measure the depth of the cap from the bottom to the base of the portion that sits against the top of the fork tube. Include any stock washer that will sit on top of the spacer. Basically we’re measuring the length of the portion that fits inside the fork tube.
Say for example that this length is 2”. If we cut the spacer so that with the spring, washer and spacer installed it came up flush with the top of the fork tube, when we installed the fork cap the spring would be compressed 2”. Too much. So we need to cut the spacer shorter to get the proper pre-load. In this case 1 ?” shorter. Easiest way to measure this is to put the spring, washer and uncut spacer in the extended fork leg. Mark the spacer tube even with the top of the fork tube. Pull the spacer out and measure 1 ?” down from the mark. Mark and cut from that point. Now, when you put the spring, washer and spacer in, the top of the spacer should be 1 ?” below the top of the fork tube. When the fork cap is installed, the 2” section inside the fork tube will compress the spring ?”. Voila, correct pre-load!! Just make sure you use the right numbers for you, not the ones in this example. Also, back the adjuster all the way back out before re-installing the fork cap, to make it easier to get the threads started. Re-set the adjuster to the middle position after everything is bolted back up.
NOTE B: Oil level
Oil level is difficult to give blanket advice on. Some bikes work best with the stock level, some benefit from less, others are better with more. A general rule is to set it fairly close to the amount of travel that the forks have. Most street bikes have 4.5 - 5 inches of travel, (about 115 - 130mm) so an oil level in that range works for most bikes. Some are different though; For example, the Kawasaki Concours uses a level of 150mm with our springs. If you have a question about your specific application, please e-mail us.
Steve
GS Whisperer
It may be a pain now, but think of it this way:
This is the ONLY time you will have to do this,
and ...
When you get done, all the miles you ride will be Smiles and so much more comfortable.
.
It may be a pain now, but think of it this way:
This is the ONLY time you will have to do this,
and ...
When you get done, all the miles you ride will be Smiles and so much more comfortable.
.
Maybe so. I just don't understand the directions. You would think a company in the business of supplying these would have a pictorial or something simple to understand.
I don't know what components from the stock system I am to re-use, got to get out my mm to inches conversion calculator... it is just complicated for me to understand... and what can be done with the forks off the bike that I cant do with them on the bike? there is a drain hole in the bottom.
Got a suggestion for you. Go out to the bike with the instruction sheet in hand. Read through each step slowly, visualizing as you go exactly what you'll be doing at each one. I think when you break it down like that you'll see that it's not very complicated, just a bunch of little steps, and each step is pretty simple. It may seem like a lot when viewed all at once, but nothing in there is hard.
Do I reuse and of the stock components? funny looking washer, sleeve plug?
Are the following statement correct?
Cutting spacers - cut the spacer so that when everything is put back together you have about 1/2" of Preload on the spring.
Oil Level - 4.5 or so inches in the tubes.
There must be someone here that has done sonic springs on a 78 gs1000 right??
Why in the world do I have to take the forks off of the bike to accomplish these?
???Spacer - put spring in, put washer in, put pvc in. measure where pvc meets top of fork. Now subtract the depth of the cap and washer and add back 1/2"
???OIL- I have a long wire to gauge the depth of the oil.
Are the following statement correct?
Cutting spacers - cut the spacer so that when everything is put back together you have about 1/2" of Preload on the spring.
Oil Level - 4.5 or so inches in the tubes.
There must be someone here that has done sonic springs on a 78 gs1000 right??
Why in the world do I have to take the forks off of the bike to accomplish these?
???Spacer - put spring in, put washer in, put pvc in. measure where pvc meets top of fork. Now subtract the depth of the cap and washer and add back 1/2"
???OIL- I have a long wire to gauge the depth of the oil.
Ok I just went out and started trying to figure out the spacer. If I did it right it will be easy. (forks still on bike)
is this right?
1. dropped in new spring
2. put in Suzuki washer (the one with a flange that fits inside the spring)
3. Put in PVC and washer that was measured to put 1/2" preload on spring.
(measured from top of spring/washer to top of tube 4.5" minus Cap and washer measurement 1.25" = 3.25" + 1/2" preload = 3.75" PVC Length.)
(basically this is also the same as measuring that after everything is sitting lightly in place before threading....the cap should sit 1/2" above the top of fork tube.)
4. Screw in the cap. It doesn't feel hard to get the cap on like it did when I put a spacer in on the stock springs.
is this right?
1. dropped in new spring
2. put in Suzuki washer (the one with a flange that fits inside the spring)
3. Put in PVC and washer that was measured to put 1/2" preload on spring.
(measured from top of spring/washer to top of tube 4.5" minus Cap and washer measurement 1.25" = 3.25" + 1/2" preload = 3.75" PVC Length.)
(basically this is also the same as measuring that after everything is sitting lightly in place before threading....the cap should sit 1/2" above the top of fork tube.)
4. Screw in the cap. It doesn't feel hard to get the cap on like it did when I put a spacer in on the stock springs.
Probably not. It's been years since I did a GS1000, don't remember either of those parts specifically. Typically you just put in spring, washer, spacer, washer, fork cap.
Yeah, 1/2"-3/4" is fine.
4.5" is ok, as long as you're measuring it correctly. You are actually measuring the air gap, the distance from the top of the tube down to the surface of the oil. Measured with the spring and spacer removed and the fork leg fully compressed.
You don't absolutely have to take the fork legs off, but it sure makes the job easier and faster if you do.
Go back and re-read Note A in the instructions. I don't know how to make it any clearer than that. Spacer is sized with the fork fully extended.
Ordinary tape measure works fine, use a flashlight to help you see. Slowly put the tape in the tube until it just touches the surface of the oil, then read the number where it exits the tube. That's the oil height, relative to the top of the tube. Fork tube fully compressed, spring and spacer removed.
Thank you Rich. Sorry I have had such a hard time with this, and about the aversion to taking the forks off. I just thought I could make it easier than taking everything apart. I may go back and do it the "right way later"
Should both sides have the exact same length PVC spacer? I just went out and measured the other side and it is not "exactly" the same distance. There is a difference of the thickness of a thick washer.
Should both sides have the exact same length PVC spacer? I just went out and measured the other side and it is not "exactly" the same distance. There is a difference of the thickness of a thick washer.
I wouldn't worry about that, not enough to matter.
Thanks for everyone putting up with me on that endeavor. I have several degrees and still have trouble with simple things sometimes.
Just got back from a test ride down the street. Feels very responsive!
I ended up just staying with the level of oilI set previously according to factory specs. (I measured to make sure they were both equal).
One of the things I was dealing with prior to putting these on (in addition to the fender scrape issue) is that it felt a little bit notchy when in tight slow turns.
Everything feels fine now, although I did back off the head bolt a little. Not sure if it was the shocks or the bolt that fixed that one. I will have to look in my service manual to see how hard to tighten the top and side clamp head bolt... unless someone here knows a simple method for that. NO Worries - FOUND IT !!! http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=187679&highlight=steering+head+bolt
BTW is it ok if when I push down on the forks they sound squeaky?
Just got back from a test ride down the street. Feels very responsive!
I ended up just staying with the level of oilI set previously according to factory specs. (I measured to make sure they were both equal).
One of the things I was dealing with prior to putting these on (in addition to the fender scrape issue) is that it felt a little bit notchy when in tight slow turns.
Everything feels fine now, although I did back off the head bolt a little. Not sure if it was the shocks or the bolt that fixed that one. I will have to look in my service manual to see how hard to tighten the top and side clamp head bolt... unless someone here knows a simple method for that. NO Worries - FOUND IT !!! http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=187679&highlight=steering+head+bolt
BTW is it ok if when I push down on the forks they sound squeaky?
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O
one_civic
Guest
I hate to bring a thread back from the dead but I'm right about to install sonic springs in my 78 GS 750.
According to my clymer manual and online parts fiche, there are 2 springs in the 750 forks,
Am I cutting the pvc spacer to take the place of the smaller spring after of course measuring the proper height with the main sonic spring installed and subtracting the pre-load and the fork cap height?
According to my clymer manual and online parts fiche, there are 2 springs in the 750 forks,
Am I cutting the pvc spacer to take the place of the smaller spring after of course measuring the proper height with the main sonic spring installed and subtracting the pre-load and the fork cap height?
O
one_civic
Guest
I understand that, I just want to know if I'm to replace the smaller spring with a pvc spacer
http://www.suzukipart.com/oemparts/a/suz/50d3fed1f8700230d8b4dccb/front-fork-gs750b
http://www.suzukipart.com/oemparts/a/suz/50d3fed1f8700230d8b4dccb/front-fork-gs750b
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