quick starter relay question

[cableguy]

I was out for a ride yesterday and stalled at a light. Wouldn't restart. The carbs are still not quite right, and that's most likely why I stalled, but the restart problem is electrical because the starter won't turn. I think it's the starter relay, but I want to run some things by you guys first:

I bypassed the clutch switch to eliminate that as a factor

When I hit the starter button I can hear the starter relay click, but I get no voltage on the starter side. To me, that's a bad solenoid, but if it clicks could it be something else?

Battery voltage is 11.9v, but I suspect that's because of my testing with key on. After I disabled the clutch switch I left the headlight out to minimize battery drain. How low can battery get and still turn the starter?

The battery was new late last season, and I never have starting or charging issues, although I have never tested the stator. I probably won't until it's back home. Right now it's in a parking lot about a mile from home.

Thanks in advance for the help

 

[spyug]

Sounds like a wonky solenoid. The battery can get way down (9 volts or less in my experience) and still turn the starter but below 11.5 to 12 volts it won't have sufficient juice to also power the coils for spark.

Does jumping the solenoid (screw driver across the two poles)get anything? If your get the starter to turn you do then have a wonky solenoid and you need to replace it of course. Lowes, in the lawn tractor section around $12.

When your fitting the new solenoid , you should take the time to clean the contacts in the starter/kill switch mechanism as dirty contacts often cause other starting issues including voltage drops to the solenoid.

Make sure your battery is also fully charged before restarting.

Good luck.

Spyug

 

[chuckycheese]

Solenoid

Solenoid

Your problem is NOT likely to be your solenoid. A working solenoid 'clicks' every single time you start your bike. If it doesn't click, it's not working.

The reason you normally don't hear it click is because the noise is drowned out by the sound of the starter motor and the engine turning over. I'm constantly amazed at how many people don't realize this but there are certainly a lot of extra solenoids around as a result of people buying them needlessly. Don't get me wrong....the solenoid could be bad but the fact that it's clicking is a good sign; not a bad one.

You mentioned that you don't have power "on the starter side". Have you tried to measure that with your starter button (and accompanying 'click') engaged? Unless you have, you can't expect any power to be there. You need to see what your battery voltage is. After a good ride, it should be fully charged (about 12.6 volts). If it's not, you either have some bad connections or a charging issue. I hope you can 'bump' start it and get it home. It should be pretty easy to figure out from there. Good luck!

 

[cableguy]

@ Sypyug---> I didn't try jumping the solenoid for fear of breaking something else, but when I got home I looked it up and that seems to be the first test.

@Chuckycheese ---> I do get a click from solenoid, but no voltage on the starter side. Is it possible that the solenoid is bad even if it clicks? I figured there would need to be juice on that side for the starter to turn.

 

[Steve]

Your problem is NOT likely to be your solenoid. A working solenoid 'clicks' every single time you start your bike. If it doesn't click, it's not working.

Actually, that only tells you that the coil in the solenoid is working.

The contacts that actually 'make' the circuit to the starter could be bad, not allowing current to flow, even though you hear the "click".

Is it possible that the solenoid is bad even if it clicks? I figured there would need to be juice on that side for the starter to turn.

See my message just above. Yes, you can get the "click" without getting voltage on the output terminal. It's rare, but still possible.

.

 

[chuckycheese]

Maybe...maybe not

Maybe...maybe not

Actually, that only tells you that the coil in the solenoid is working.

The contacts that actually 'make' the circuit to the starter could be bad, not allowing current to flow, even though you hear the "click".



See my message just above. Yes, you can get the "click" without getting voltage on the output terminal. It's rare, but still possible.

.

Yeah, Steve, that was precisely the reason I stated "...the solenoid could be bad but the fact that it's 'clicking' is a good sign; not a bad one."

Cableguy...Just right! It could be bad, for sure, if you're doing a proper check and have no power over there. Have you checked to see what your battery voltage is without it being hooked up??? (I'm curious about that!)

 

[cableguy]

Battery voltage was 11.9 hooked up, didn't check it naked. I'll get a generic solenoid from lowes or auto parts store today and test it after work today.

Thanks for the input guys!

 

[chuckycheese]

I wouldn't do that...

I wouldn't do that...

Battery voltage was 11.9 hooked up, didn't check it naked. I'll get a generic solenoid from lowes or auto parts store today and test it after work today.

Thanks for the input guys!

You're welcome!! (Be sure to save the receipt because I don't think you've exhausted the possibility that it's something else.)

You mentioned that your recently ridden bike's battery registers 11.9 volts; that's not good. As a comparison, my bike has been sitting, unridden, for 6 days (crappy weather) and my 4 year old, hooked-up battery registers 12.41 volts. If your solenoid is bad (and I don't think it is), it's not going to turn out to be your only problem.

 

[cableguy]

You may be right, although I hope you're not! I didn't buy this fine machine under the assumption that everything was perfect. The PO wasn't a meticulous maintainer of machinery by any means, but it ran pretty well and I could see potential. I didn't pay a whole lot for it, and so I have a fair margin to work with to replace things without feeling like I've spent more than it's worth.

Is it just a good idea to pre-emptively go through and replace items like stator and r/r? Or do you wait for symptoms to arise, then do it? I think I lean toward "just do it and get it done" but I like hearing what smarter people than me have to say about it.

 

[cowboyup3371]

Pre-emptively replacing the inexpensive but IMPORTANT stuff like brake lines, pads, plugs, air filter is very useful. Replacing more expensive things really depends on your pocketbook - why spend the money if it's not needed yet? Your best bet if you are concerned about your electrical stuff is to run through the stator papers, clean all connections, look over the fuses and possibly replace the old tubes with newer blades, and then go from there.

 

[chuckycheese]

Replacing good parts with new parts won't make you any safer!

Replacing good parts with new parts won't make you any safer!

Is it just a good idea to pre-emptively go through and replace items like stator and r/r? Or do you wait for symptoms to arise, then do it? QUOTE]

No, don't do that. If you're thinking of replacing things that don't need replacing, you might just as well buy a new motorcycle. I'd suggest you find out what's busted or in need of repair....and fix or replace it! Replacing good parts with new parts would be a waste of money and time.....and won't make you any safer.

 

[refeicul]

going on the stalled reason. my bike behaved similarly a few months ago it would ride ok but would stall or lacked power at lights or climbing a hill. people here said it maybe a sync issue couldn't sync up properly. swore up and down that i did everything and did it well. turned out to be a loose clamp on an intake boot, after that it now runs like a champ.

now with your starter issue i would swap out the solenoid with a standard one from lowes, homedepew or auto parts store.. 12$ isn't that much of an investment

 

[2BRacing]

Instead of just replacing parts, rather do the proper maintenance that is required first - like eliminate intake air leaks; setting valves; cleaning and synching carbs; cleaning all electrical connections; etc (see BassCliff's site for list and how to's). This will not cost you anything but some time, and you will probably find that your bike runs properly, without expensive "hit and miss" replacement of parts.

 

[Big T]

Instead of just replacing parts, rather do the proper maintenance that is required first - like eliminate intake air leaks; setting valves; cleaning and synching carbs; cleaning all electrical connections; etc (see BassCliff's site for list and how to's). This will not cost you anything but some time, and you will probably find that your bike runs properly, without expensive "hit and miss" replacement of parts.

Or, you could try spend $5 at HF for a VOM and go about testing components per the various tutorials on BassCliff's site

To start with

Battery static - 11.4v (low)
Battery when starter button held down - ?

Sounds to be either your battery is bad, or your stator, or your R?R, or?

Read the Stator papers

 

[cableguy]

Pre-emptively replacing the inexpensive but IMPORTANT stuff like brake lines, pads, plugs, air filter is very useful. Replacing more expensive things really depends on your pocketbook - why spend the money if it's not needed yet? Your best bet if you are concerned about your electrical stuff is to run through the stator papers, clean all connections, look over the fuses and possibly replace the old tubes with newer blades, and then go from there.

This is a theory I subscribe to for mechanical and wear parts. Im still feeling my way around to get a sense of best practices for electricals, and which parts will give out gradually and which just stop working. I'll go through the whole system now, once I get it home. Now I just need to get it home. If my $12 solenoid doesn't do it my buddy can push start me. This all happened yesterday afternoon and no one was around ( holiday weekend)

 

[cableguy]

OK I installed my test solenoid, and now the starter goes clickety-click, which it didn't before. At least my diagnosis of bad solenoid was accurate, but now I need to go through everything and determine why the battery was so drained. I hooked up the tender and got the volts up to 12v, and when I hit the starter button it dropped to 5.6v, and the starter didn't rotate.

Next step is to start at the beginning of BassCliff's series of inspections and checks, and see where I land. Thanks everyone for the advice.

 

[2BRacing]

I hooked up the tender and got the volts up to 12v, and when I hit the starter button it dropped to 5.6v, and the starter didn't rotate.

It looks like your battery needs to be replaced. This voltage drop is just way too large. Have your battery load-tested at a battery centre. You did say it was a new battery late last season. However, if it has not been on a tender during the off-season, it lost too much of its charge and sulphated. Very difficult to recover to normal capacity once that has happened. The load test will confirm if the battery is still good or not.

 

[chuckycheese]

I highly doubt it.

I highly doubt it.

OK I installed my test solenoid, and now the starter goes clickety-click, which it didn't before. At least my diagnosis of bad solenoid was accurate, but now I need to go through everything and determine why the battery was so drained..

As I first said, I highly doubt it!! You heard clicking before and you hear clicking now. I think you've now got 2 good solenoids and, most likely, one bad battery...and possibly some charging issues. :-\\\

(Hint: Regarding the 'click' you're hearing: 2 different types of solenoids sound differently (just as 2 different types of horns sound differently). I doubt you'll take my advice but I'd suggest you connect your starter to a known, decent power source in order to see that it's working properly. It will only take a few minutes and then you can (could) rule it completely out of the equation. Good luck!

 

[cableguy]

2Bracing---> It was on a tender over the winter, And I've had no problems thus far this season, just sitting in the driveway, and I will sometimes go a week between rides
It does warrant a trip to get it tested though.

Chucky--> I still think my first solenoid is bad (no volts on the starter side with button pressed), and after I go through the whole system I'll see where things are at.

 

[posplayr]

if you had that battery on a charger for any amount of time, and it is dropping to 5Volts it is bad.

Want to just get a feel for how the charging is working? Do a Quick_Test