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r/r keeps killing battery?

  • Thread starter Thread starter rusty boltz
  • Start date Start date
R

rusty boltz

Guest
Well I finally got my 79 gs1000 running this weekend and loved every minute of test driving it around the neighborhood. Yesterday when I put it away I noticed the rectifier was really hot even though the bike had been off for several hours. Even the pipes were cool. When I went out to start it this morning the lights came on but there was not enough power to crank even a little and the rectifier was still warm. The battery was fully charged before riding and I checked the charge on sunday before I rode it and it was barely 13 volts @ 2000 rpm so it was charging. I dont believe the rectifier is stock, it is black and rectangular, and does not look like any of the pics in any of the manuals. Doesnt seem right for it to be getting hot like that while the bike is off and sitting but it still charges the battery while running. Anyone experience this before? Ive found many no charge threads but nothing quite like this. I'd like to rectify (no pun intended) this before the weekend so I can join my first group ride. Thanks
 
rusty boltz said:
I checked the charge on sunday before I rode it and it was barely 13 volts @ 2000 rpm so it was charging.
Click to expand...



Probably not.
Check the batt voltage when its not running. A fully charged battery will show close to 13 vdc. That will drop down closer to 11 when you turn the key on. When running you should see a rise in voltage over 14vdc.
Sounds like that RR is wired in hot. Like the sense wire is always got voltage on it. Maybe its connected right to the battery +. It should be on a switched wire like the brake light. Also make sure the RR ground point is good. A jumper to the - battery post will help that. If the RR still has a connector make sure its clean with electrical contact cleaner and some dielectric grease.

If all else fails break out the Stator Papers.
 
If it is not faulty it may be the type that senses the battery voltage and that part may take some juice out of the battery if connected directly. Not sure if it is so much that the unit will be warm to the touch.
I recall people fitting those and then suggesting that the battery sense wire be connected via a relay that operates when ignition is switched on, thus disconnecting the sense wire when the bike is off.
 
bonanzadave said:
Probably not.
Check the batt voltage when its not running. A fully charged battery will show close to 13 vdc. That will drop down closer to 11 when you turn the key on. When running you should see a rise in voltage over 14vdc.
Sounds like that RR is wired in hot. Like the sense wire is always got voltage on it. Maybe its connected right to the battery +. It should be on a switched wire like the brake light. Also make sure the RR ground point is good. A jumper to the - battery post will help that. If the RR still has a connector make sure its clean with electrical contact cleaner and some dielectric grease.

If all else fails break out the Stator Papers.
Click to expand...

Come to think of it the battery voltage was 12.9 before starting. Still its weird that there was no drop while running. Definitley not a ground issue I replaced battery wires with 6G wire and made a bus ground straight off the battery, nothing is grounded to the frame. No connector, it is soldered in so thats not likely bad. Its not wired directly to the battery or to the solenoid, but might be spliced into the main fuse as I've noticed it always has power (will check on that soon as get off work). Maybe its going bad? The headlight got brighter every time i would rev it so something was happening. I dunno, but that thing is cooking hot now, I just hooked it up to the trickle charger and it got hot right away and the bike is off. Stator papers were the first thing I went running for when I noticed this but I lent out my DVM yesterday and wont get it back until tomorrow. The bike came with the aftermarket RR so I really am not sure if it a sensing type or not or even how it should be wired. The PO was a serious hack and I'm being nice. So it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it was wired incorrectly. Well, guess I'll get my meter back tomorrow and do the whole check. Might as well do it now instead of later on down the road. I hope I get this sewed up before the weekend. Thanks for your input!
 
Cooking with electrons

Cooking with electrons

Hi Mr. rusty boltz,

Does your r/r unit look like either of these?

DSCF2458.jpg


Does your r/r unit have 5 wires? 6 wires? 7 wires? Knowing this will help determine how it should be wired into your bike.

My bike has a big ground wire running from the negative battery terminal and bolted to the back of the engine. Yours should be similarly grounded.

Here is a wiring diagram for a standard r/r unit (5 wire):

charging_diag.jpg



And here is a diagram for one of Mr. duaneage's 6 wire Honda r/r units:

HondaRRconnections-1.jpg

I hope this helps. Keep us informed.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
Frame and motor are grounded. When I made the new battery wires I crimed an extra 10G wire to the ground terminal and ran it to a stud on the electric panel and grounded everything directly to that stud so everything gets ground directly from the battery. Although it may be overkill it works and eliminates ground issue questions later on. I agree that the RR has to be wired in wrong. The more I think about it the more I think its gotta be that wire that the PO spliced into the main fuse. Thats the only wire that bypasses any switch. I'm going to check it out tomorrow morning before I go to work. If thats the problem I will run it to a switched relay as recommended in an earlier post. I really hope thats my problem cuz I can't afford any expensive charging components right now and I JUST WANT TO RIDE IT ALREADY!!!! Thanks again for your comments and input. I truely enjoy being a part of this forum because people get involved and that is what puts these bikes (at least mine) back on the road.
 
Wow thanks BassCliff! Mine is the one on the left. I'm pretty sure it is either aftermarket or off another brand of bike. I just hope it is not fried from being on all the time. I guess I'll find out tomorrow.
 
Hi Mr. rusty boltz,

The r/r unit on the left is a 5-wire OEM type. The one on the left is a 6-wire Honda r/r unit from Mr. duaneage. It's a great $40 investment.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
Just a further comment, Mr BassCliff's diagram for the Duanage Honda regualtor shows the "sensing" wire wired to the switched positive. Most people pick it up on the brake light switch as shown. This is the preferable way to do it and in many cases this should be sufficient.

On the other hand some bikes have a faily large voltage drop from the main fuse via the ignition and back to the fuse box, which is then sensed as too low a battery voltage and your regulator pushes out a higher voltage and could overcharge the battery.

A direct connection to the battery gives a more accurate sensing, but could lead to a slow discharge, so a 12 volt relay is used to only connect this when the ignition is on. You could just put a temporary switch in the wire and do it manually to stop the discharging and prove the charging voltages are correct.

This is all only applicable if your regulator is actually not faulty and is the some sort as the Honda types.
 
crap.

crap.

Well, I got out there (I'm always a little out there) this morning with my trusty DVM and the laptop with the Stator Papers all loaded up (the computer not me) and began the tests. First, that wire that I was so sure was the problem went to the electronic ignition (probably the only good thing the PO did) not the rectifryer like I thought. So the search began. I didn't make it far into the tests before I was cursing angrily. Of course it's a shorted stator no resistance at all between the yellow wire and the engine case. With all the hacked up wiring the PO did to it (I mean, WHO uses duct tape over twisted together connections!) I don't know why I even thought it would be OK. Funny thing is the rectifryer and the stator are pretty new. Stupid hack... man I am starting to hate that guy. Alright I know where I gotta start now. The battery is new and luckily has been holding up to the abuse with the help of my battery tender. I need a new stator but would like to order the whole set up with the RR if it is available. Then I'm ripping out ALL the wiring pertaining to it and running all new quality wiring. I don't want to EVER do this again.
Anybody got a link to a place that sells a system at a reasonable price? Does it exist? Thanks again!
Oh, and its a 5 wire RR I guess it is a stock one.
 
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It's all in there

It's all in there

rusty boltz said:
Anybody got a link to a place that sells a system at a reasonable price? Does it exist? Thanks again!
Oh, and its a 5 wire RR I guess it is a stock one.
Click to expand...

Check your mega-welcome again.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
RMStator has the stator+RR combo for a special price, don't know what it is as I just needed the stator.
 
Are you sure there is a short between the yellow wires (while unplugged) and the frame? I think you mentioned the lights getting brighter when it revved and this proves some charging is taking place.
If there is don't despair too easily, you may be lucky and the stator may just have a pinched yellow wire! Those can be easily replaced.
Just the hassle of getting it out and back in, but thats already a given it seems.
I hope I am not giving you false hope, but it has been known to happen.

That wire that you found run by the PO, was it running directly from the main fuse to the ignitor? If so that does not seem correct. The positive feed to the ignitor should come of one of the ignition switched fuses and only be powerd when the ignition switch is on. On my bike it is the orange/white wire that also powers the brake ligts, 3rd fuse from the top.
 
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There is continuity with no resistance (0.00 ohms) between the yellow wire coming from the stator and the engine case while un plugged. It would be nice if it was just a pinched wire since the there was even resistance (.5 ohms) between all 3 wires coming from the stator which the papers consider acceptable. However when I had the carbs off I went through the wiring to repair all the twisted and taped connections and didn't see it pinched anywhere. Maybe removing the cover will reveal something else. I'm considering just replacing everything and rewiring the charging system from scratch so I can just forget about it. I know its expensive but so is all the tylenol this bike has required. I have a 78 gs1000 parts bike (which I completely forgot about) with a complete engine so I will test the stator on that one but I am weary since I really don't like doing things twice. I'll test it and if it's good I'll remove and inspect it. If all looks good I'll still be weary but hey it's already paid for. The RR looks completely different though, I'm not sure why since both bikes are only a year apart. I'll test today if it's no good then I'll just have to whip out the trusty credit card and give electrosport a call (thanks BassCliff!) I don't want to miss any more riding this year.
 
finally a break!

finally a break!

rustybronco said:
Shorted to ground stator.
Click to expand...
Definitely.
I checked the one on the parts bike this morning. DVM tests were good. It showed .6 ohms between the three wires and infinite between the yellow and the case. I even poked the case in several areas as well as the frame just to be sure I was getting good contact and still showed infinite resistance. This is a good thing! The wires look pretty dusty but this bike has been sitting for close to 3 and a half years. The stator side of the bike is buried by junk right now and there is no front wheel on the bike (borrowed the speedo drive) so I cant move it. I'll have to put the front wheel back together so I can move it, no time now though. Stupid job! When I get it out I'll check the readings again and inspect the insulation on the coils. If all looks well then it's going in, if not I guess I'm just gonna have to throw some more money at it. Well I'm off to pick up the custom leather seat cover I had made for a bike I can't ride. Have a great day everyone and I'll be back on this tomorrow to try to figure out the RR differences ( one is small and black and has a seperate reg, the other is large silver and unitized). Thanks for all the help!
 
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