Raised needle, stock mains & too rich

[Ranger]

Raised the needle with the radioshack washers half the thickness of the original spacer and kept stock jets 122.5 and air/fuel screws are 3 1/2 turns out while running EMGO pods. Runs great, plenty of power, no surging but running rich.

Should I play with my mixture screws or just set the needles back to stock setting?

 

[posplayr]

Raised the needle with the radioshack washers half the thickness of the original spacer and kept stock jets 122.5 and air/fuel screws are 3 1/2 turns out while running ERGO pods. Runs great, plenty of power, no surging but running rich.

Should I play with my mixture screws or just set the needles back to stock setting?

U sure 122.5 is stock? Seems pretty big for a 700

 

[Ranger]

Positive. Service manual shows 122.5. I think I need to turn my screws in for sure.

 

[Steve]

Raised the needle with the radioshack washers half the thickness of the original spacer and kept stock jets 122.5 and air/fuel screws are 3 1/2 turns out while running ERGO pods. Runs great, plenty of power, no surging but running rich.

Should I play with my mixture screws or just set the needles back to stock setting?

Not sure when you switched to ERGO pods, but I saw what you did to your EMGO pods in this thread.

My guess is that your "enhancement" to the restriction of the pods is playing havoc with your ability to tune the carbs.
Anybody's suggestion on what is needed will likely be based on stock EMGO pods, not modified ones, so they will all be guesses.
3 1/2 turns is a bit much for what might be stock (or less) airflow, along with raising the needles.

Ultimately, you will have to do what your sparkplugs are telling you. They are the only ones that really know what's going on inside YOUR engine.
They will be happy to share that information with you, but you do have to peek at them.


Do you have stock exhaust? If so, your stock jetting might be too rich with your "enhancement".

.

 

[Steve]

U sure 122.5 is stock? Seems pretty big for a 700

I will confirm that. I looked in the spreadsheet that was posted some time ago, and that's what it says came stock.

.

 

[Ranger]

Yes I have stock exhaust, I checked the plugs about 15 min prior to posting this. I ran this same set up with my K&N and it was still rich. Even if the suggestions are based on stock pods its still a baseline for me to go off. I did forget that these carbs are leaner when turning the screws in so tomorrow I'll do the highest RPM method.

 

[Steve]

Have you done proper "plug chops"?

"Chopping" the throttle at specified throttle openings will tell you what's happening in the different circuits on the carbs, but you have to do several runs, at least one for each circuit in the carbs (there are three).

Just casually reading the plugs will only tell you about the most recent running condition, and that's usually IDLE, as in just before turning the key off.

.

 

[Ranger]

Not since I raised the needles. I thought about doing it but I got lazy after I had to fix a cracked header

 

[posplayr]

Yes I have stock exhaust, I checked the plugs about 15 min prior to posting this. I ran this same set up with my K&N and it was still rich. Even if the suggestions are based on stock pods its still a baseline for me to go off. I did forget that these carbs are leaner when turning the screws in so tomorrow I'll do the highest RPM method.

I'm cornfuzed.........
stock pipes
stock jetting
K&N airfilter in an airbox?
Black pipe?

sounds like something is off; normally all stock setting are on the lean side due to emissions controls.

 

[Ranger]

EMGO Pods or K&N pods but switched back to EMGOs. Stock exhaust, jets and raised needles = black plugs.

Did the highest RPM method today (somewhat) and screws are now turned out 2 3/4 and a huge difference in power from closed throttle thru full throttle from what I can tell. Can't really get good results until my clutch springs arrive.

 

[Steve]

Here, Pos, this might eliminate some of your cornfuzzlement:

Read this thread pay particular attention to post #5.








Forget the black pipe, it's a wonder it runs at all. :-\\\

.

 

[Ranger]

Here, Pos, this might eliminate some of your cornfuzzlement:

Read this thread pay particular attention to post #5.








Forget the black pipe, it's a wonder it runs at all. :-\\\

.

Haha true, but it doesnt eliminate why theres no change in plug color even when I ran my K&N Pods and tuned accordingly

 

[sparki]

new plugs or the same old black ones?

 

[posplayr]

Here, Pos, this might eliminate some of your cornfuzzlement:

Read this thread pay particular attention to post #5.








Forget the black pipe, it's a wonder it runs at all. :-\\\

.

I assumed that Vasoline treatment was to fix the black pipe not create it.

I'm suspecting something is not setup right in teh carbs like float levels. No stock setup should have sooty pipes. Are the plugs sooty as well?

 

[Ranger]

I assumed that Vasoline treatment was to fix the black pipe not create it.

I'm suspecting something is not setup right in teh carbs like float levels. No stock setup should have sooty pipes. Are the plugs sooty as well?

Plus are sooty.

 

[tejasmud]

More restriction to the air filter side of the carburetors will richen the fuel mixture.

From what I have read, pods on CV carbs are tricky to tune. One thing is the removal of the stock air box and boots. The boots are shaped similar to velocity stacks inside the air box. This geometry of the flow path is changed/removed when pods are used. The geometry change also changes the velocity, but more critical the pressure that is being sensed at the intake throat of the carburetors. The sense pressure is what controls the slides, which allows them to move up as the throttle is applied.

If the slides are not moving up as throttle is applied, or not moving up at the same rate, it is actually restricting the intake, air filter side, of the carburetors. Thus creating a richer condition. Instead of air entering the carburetors, the vacuum is increased across the jets drawing more fuel.

If I remember correctly the Dynojet kit is what you need for pods given it has the drills to make the needed adjustments to compensate for the change in the intake geometry.

On the main jet, #122.5 is stock, which yes really seems big for a 700cc, but these are 32mm CV carbs. For comparison sake, in the VM29, 29mm, smoothbores I'm running #105 mains since cool weather has set in, but #102.5s might be a better selection in the summer. This is a big difference between #122.5 mains as stock and #105 mains on the aftermarket carbs. This sort of goes to show the importance of the pressures observed across the venturi and at the throat of the the 2 different sets of carburetors as to how the carburetors meter the fuel. Same engine.

IMHO, the emgos that received the vasoline, carb cleaner, and burn treatment should be thrown in the garbage.

Other.

Not a clutch thread, but might be useful information.

Clutch springs? Back plate or the 4 compressing the clutch plates?

On the 4 springs for the clutch plates I would recomend the either stock or Barnett springs. The EBC springs I tested had a lower sping load at working height than the stock springs by about 5 lbs. 40 lbs as apposed to 45 lbs stock. I am running a 13t front and 47t rear sprocket and the lower gearing running the EBC springs caused the clutch to slip. The regular Barnett springs, don't think they make heavy duty for the 83' 750 or 700, but they were closer to 70 lbs. A little more grip is needed to hold the clutch in, but not too noticable while changing gears. Barnett springs are a little more, but not by $10 or so.

Good luck. I really think you need to invest in a Dynojet kit with a change to pod filters to get it to run right.

E