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Removal of swingarm

  • Thread starter Thread starter gert du prez
  • Start date Start date
G

gert du prez

Guest
Hi,

based upon a detailed description of Duaneage, I started the removal of the swingarm some days ago (due to leak at the rubber). Will be re-painting the swingarm and the differential. Having a bit of trouble removing the paint of the swingarm due to all the welds and different shapes and forms. The paint remover is not doing a great job either...

Will take the necessary pictures for completing Duaneage's story...

Questions:

1) what material is the differential, and thus what paint should I use ? normal primer + color + clearcoat ? of special sort of paint ?

2) what is the top of the rubber ? at one side, there is a flat spot (see picture), is that to be installed upwards or downwards ?

3) what side of the rubber do you attach first ? front of the rubber on the engine or first installing the rubber to the swingarm ?

lots of questions, but the answers will be beneficiary for Basscliff's site in the end...
 
Last edited:
gert du prez said:
Hi,

based upon a detailed description of Duaneage, I started the removal of the swingarm some days ago (due to leak at the rubber). Will be re-painting the swingarm and the differential. Having a bit of trouble removing the paint of the swingarm due to all the welds and different shapes and forms. The paint remover is not doing a great job either...

Will take the necessary pictures for completing Duaneage's story...

Questions:

1) what material is the differential, and thus what paint should I use ? normal primer + color + clearcoat ? of special sort of paint ?

2) what is the top of the rubber ? at one side, there is a flat spot (see picture), is that to be installed upwards or downwards ?

3) what side of the rubber do you attach first ? front of the rubber on the engine or first installing the rubber to the swingarm ?

lots of questions, but the answers will be beneficiary for Basscliff's site in the end...
Click to expand...


1) The final drive casing is aluminum, same as the engine case covers -- it's clear-coated from the factory. Paint remover will damage the seals, so if you want to remove the clear coat, it might be best to mask off the input and output sides and sand it off, then polish and/or paint as you wish. Many people simply polish aluminum parts, then treat them with ordinary car wax a few times a year. If you research polishing engine case covers, you'll see lots of examples and advice.

2) The flat spot goes to the inside (the right side).

3) I usually install the rubber boot on the engine first, then work it onto the swingarm. It doesn't make a lot of difference which you do first.



But more importantly: did you find and fix the oil leak? The rubber boot is just there to keep dirt and shoestrings out of the u-joint.

The bevel gear is the assembly that contains the output flange -- the part of the engine that the driveshaft bolts to.

If one of the bearings in the bevel gear assembly goes bad, it will start leaking. There is a seal here, but it rarely goes bad by itself.

Before doing anything else, see if there's any play or movement in the output flange.

Also, it's very important to use the high-grade OEM bolts when re-attaching the swingarm, and use red thread lock the ensure they can't come loose. Guess how I learned this...
 
bwringer said:
.


But more importantly: did you find and fix the oil leak? The rubber boot is just there to keep dirt and shoestrings out of the u-joint.

The bevel gear is the assembly that contains the output flange -- the part of the engine that the driveshaft bolts to.

If one of the bearings in the bevel gear assembly goes bad, it will start leaking. There is a seal here, but it rarely goes bad by itself.

Before doing anything else, see if there's any play or movement in the output flange.
Click to expand...

Ok, the seal looks good but there is oil dripping...indeed there is 'play' of the output of the bevel gear, can move it 1mm to any direction, so that seems to be quite loose...

what do I do next ? I was not planning to dive into the engine...:(
can I work my way into the bevel gear starting from there ?
will add picture tomorrow showing the oil leak...
 
fyi, picture is taken from the back of the bike (where the swingarm normally is installed) ...definitely the oil is leaking, the seal looks intact.

how do I tackle this ?
 
shaft broken?

shaft broken?

gert,

Cant really tell from the picture, but did you remove the nut and the uni- joint flange, or has it broken off?

If all you want to do is replace the seal it can just be pulled out from the casing. make a hook out of thin steel rod and pull it hard, the seal will be damaged pulling it so have a new one.

but if its broken you can undo the 4 bolts and pull the driven gear and its bearings out. (the oil will come out...) get the factory service manual from Bass cliffs site, heaps of pictures.


cheers john
 
john82q said:
gert,

Cant really tell from the picture, but did you remove the nut and the uni- joint flange, or has it broken off?

If all you want to do is replace the seal it can just be pulled out from the casing. make a hook out of thin steel rod and pull it hard, the seal will be damaged pulling it so have a new one.

but if its broken you can undo the 4 bolts and pull the driven gear and its bearings out. (the oil will come out...) get the factory service manual from Bass cliffs site, heaps of pictures.


cheers john
Click to expand...

Hi,

the shaft does not seem to be broken but could be pulled out as it is just sitting over the teeth without any bolts whatsoever (it is kept there by the differential that pushes the shaft towards the engine, I would assume)

I can't really read the pictures of what parts I would need if I would like to replace the seal and the bearing...
can anyone indicate what numbers I would need ?
 
gert du prez said:
Hi,

the shaft does not seem to be broken but could be pulled out as it is just sitting over the teeth without any bolts whatsoever (it is kept there by the differential that pushes the shaft towards the engine, I would assume)

I can't really read the pictures of what parts I would need if I would like to replace the seal and the bearing...
can anyone indicate what numbers I would need ?
Click to expand...

parts picture 1
 
could be pulled out as it is just sitting over the teeth without any bolts whatsoever (it is kept there by the differential that pushes the shaft towards the engine, I would assume)
Click to expand...
No no!
its held on with a nut (item 13 ) and the washer (item 12)
Normally you would have to undo 4 bolts in on the flange (item 11) to get to the nut.


the seal (item 15) and bearings (items 8 and 7) may need to be changed, but theres no point with the shaft broken.

Heres one way to fix the shaft. Bevel Gear Shaft Repair
(by Mr. Zooks)


Hope that helps

john
 
john82q said:
No no!

Heres one way to fix the shaft. Bevel Gear Shaft Repair
(by Mr. Zooks)


Hope that helps

john
Click to expand...

Yes John, that helps, now knowing that indeed the shaft has broken off...
as soon as I read "this is a fairly common problem ..." I knew the bike suffered from this...

have had every other 'common' problem as well ...
- stator issues
- regulator issues
- leaking front forks
- melted wiring
...you name it...

do you think the method described in your referral is the best solution ? or would you replace the drive and driven set ?
 
Dang, I was afraid that was the real problem.

Honestly, it's probably easiest to replace the bevel gear assembly (just the driven part) with a set from a used engine. If that's not available, you might be able to get a machine shop to perform the repair as shown by Zooks.

If you've been riding around like this, you're in for a real treat once you get it fixed properly.
 
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bwringer said:
Dang, I was afraid that was the real problem.

If you've been riding around like this, you're in for a real treat once you get it fixed properly.
Click to expand...

you make me curious...what do you mean with 'real treat' ?
how would I 'feel' this ?
 
Ok, as I do have a spare one, I will replace the entire driven gear (not the drive/driven set).

what's the deal with the flanges ? do you need to measure a sort of 'thickness' like valve adjustments ?
 
Can't get the driven gear set out ...

Can't get the driven gear set out ...

Hi,

swingarm of the spare parts bike is removed, all 4 bolts of the driven gear set are out...but can't get the damn set loose...

have pushed a screwdriver between the edge of the driven gear set and the engine, and knocked hard with a hammer...edge broke off...still the whole set is sitting there...

what's the next step ? how do I loosen this ? (see post #5 in this thread for attachment)
 
Have you loosened the case bolts around it?

There are a few bolts that hold the upper and lower cases together in the vicinity of the secondary drive set. That helps a little bit, but be aware that the unit needs to slide straight out. It is a VERY tight fit and 20-25 mm deep, there is no room for "wiggling" it out. And, you need two screwdrivers (or thin wedges) to try to get it out straight.

I just did this on an 850, which is a little easier because there is just barely enough room to get the gear out. You may have to loosen some motor mounts and tip the engine forward to get the room you need.

.
 
...reporting...

As Steve suggested, removed the 4 nearest case bolts and was able to pull (NOT wiggle) the driven gear straight out. There is no room left for wiggling as Steve mentioned, so the straighter the better. I tried the wiggling but it becomes clear really easy that this will not work...
 
Can I ask where you got your rubber boot from. I just pulled my engine out, and noticed my bike didnt have one. So i'm in need.
Did you just get it from one of the online parts supplies (bikebandit).
Cheers
 
Z1 entreprises, my only source from ordering parts

I mail them a word document attachment with all the part numbers (+ pictures) of the things I need, they make me a nice package and ship it.
It takes 5 days or less from the US to Belgium (Europe)...
 
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