replacing head gaskets

[ron bayless]

I have my 1980 gs 1000 L for sale here for a long time and no one is interested in it.that is dumb.L models are cool.They are humpty and ugly but so am i, so they look cool to me.Anyway,i am probably going to keep this torque monster and fix it myself.Several questions:
1.i take off the valve cover,end caps to the cams,remove the cams,let the cam chain fall down to the inside of the motor because i am going to take the head off.Then i loosen the head bolts as indicated.I am using the Clymer manual.Replace the gasket and square oring gasket.Retighten the head bolts 20 20 pounds,replace the cams,retime according to the manual for the exhaust cam and intake cam,etc,etc.Reconnect the carbs,fuel line,vaccuum line,gas tank and so on.But---The crank is one piece so the cam chain cant come of it right? Or should i keep a wire around it to keep it from falling down into the motor whil i lift the head off.
2.I have a complete gasket replacement set.Will this set include new gaskets for the carburetors also or should i get carb rebuld kits.I want to replace all the gaskets and orings while i have them off.
3.my starter doesnt work right some time.Dont think it is the solenoid,but i know how to check for the solenoid.I dont have another 200 bucks to spend on the starter.Sometimes you get about 5 clicks before it catches.Could i take the starter off and clean it and maybe solve the problem?
4.Will I have to have some sort of new gaskets sround the exhaust pipes before reinstallin them or can you use the old ones?
5.Will have to resynch the carbs or can i bench resynch them or will either version be necessary?

All help or input is appreciated.If it wasnt for the overhead cams i would have no fear of doing this.Carb rebulding up to now id rebulding a ford 2 barrel.but the clymer manual makes it look pretty straight forward.Thanks,Ron

 

[tkent02]

Glad you are going to fix it......

Glad you are going to fix it......

1.i take off the valve cover,end caps to the cams,remove the cams,let the cam chain fall down to the inside of the motor because i am going to take the head off.Then i loosen the head bolts as indicated.I am using the Clymer manual.Replace the gasket and square oring gasket.Retighten the head bolts 20 20 pounds,replace the cams,retime according to the manual for the exhaust cam and intake cam,etc,etc.Reconnect the carbs,fuel line,vaccuum line,gas tank and so on.But---The crank is one piece so the cam chain cant come of it right? Or should i keep a wire around it to keep it from falling down into the motor whil i lift the head off.

Can't hurt to kep the chain from falling down, easier than fishing it out.


2.I have a complete gasket replacement set.Will this set include new gaskets for the carburetors also or should i get carb rebuld kits.I want to replace all the gaskets and orings while i have them off.

Do one thing at a time. Fix the carbs next week. And no the carb gaskets won't be there.

3.my starter doesnt work right some time.Dont think it is the solenoid,but i know how to check for the solenoid.I dont have another 200 bucks to spend on the starter.Sometimes you get about 5 clicks before it catches.Could i take the starter off and clean it and maybe solve the problem?

Fix that week after next.


4.Will I have to have some sort of new gaskets sround the exhaust pipes before reinstallin them or can you use the old ones?

The old ones will probably reseal, if not fix it later, it's a real easy one.


5.Will have to resynch the carbs or can i bench resynch them or will either version be necessary?

Wait until after you redo the carbs, then do the synching.

All help or input is appreciated.If it wasnt for the overhead cams i would have no fear of doing this.Carb rebulding up to now id rebulding a ford 2 barrel.but the clymer manual makes it look pretty straight forward.Thanks,Ron

Get some PB Blaster and start using it now, let it soak in a while. Specially on the exhaust pipe bolts.

 

[mark]

I have my 1980 gs 1000 L for sale here for a long time and no one is interested in it.that is dumb.L models are cool.They are humpty and ugly but so am i, so they look cool to me.Anyway,i am probably going to keep this torque monster and fix it myself.Several questions:
1.i take off the valve cover,end caps to the cams,remove the cams,let the cam chain fall down to the inside of the motor because i am going to take the head off.Then i loosen the head bolts as indicated.I am using the Clymer manual.Replace the gasket and square oring gasket.Retighten the head bolts 20 20 pounds,replace the cams,retime according to the manual for the exhaust cam and intake cam,etc,etc.Reconnect the carbs,fuel line,vaccuum line,gas tank and so on.But---The crank is one piece so the cam chain cant come of it right? Or should i keep a wire around it to keep it from falling down into the motor whil i lift the head off.
2.I have a complete gasket replacement set.Will this set include new gaskets for the carburetors also or should i get carb rebuld kits.I want to replace all the gaskets and orings while i have them off.
3.my starter doesnt work right some time.Dont think it is the solenoid,but i know how to check for the solenoid.I dont have another 200 bucks to spend on the starter.Sometimes you get about 5 clicks before it catches.Could i take the starter off and clean it and maybe solve the problem?
4.Will I have to have some sort of new gaskets sround the exhaust pipes before reinstallin them or can you use the old ones?
5.Will have to resynch the carbs or can i bench resynch them or will either version be necessary?

All help or input is appreciated.If it wasnt for the overhead cams i would have no fear of doing this.Carb rebulding up to now id rebulding a ford 2 barrel.but the clymer manual makes it look pretty straight forward.Thanks,Ron

Its really not that bad. Easy stuff first. You will need to (or should) replace the exhaust gaskets. Every time you take the carbs off, you should also re-synch them, at least I do. I'm not that great on starters, but it could be something as simple as the switch too, so check that. I don't know about your crank.

As you're taking the head off, probably best not to let the cam chain fall into the motor. I had someone hang on to mine when I pulled the head and the block. If it dropped down in there you could fish it out, but I didn't want to take that chance. Once your head and block are off it just hangs over the side of the motor.

Also when your removing your cam caps remove the bolts evenly. The cam is under some pressure from the valves pushing up on the lobes, so be ready for that (I wasn't and it was a little awkward).

Watch for those smaller bolts, usually one in the middle and two on the sides that bolt into the block...sometimes easy to forget.

*****Remember, if the head comes off, the block will almost certainly have to come off too, since you'll almost certainly break the lower seal. The head bolts hold the head and the block so when you take one off the other pretty much has to come off too.

Keep track of your valve shims, so they end up on the same valve that they left.......also check the large O-ring on the lower cylinder sleeves, probably should replace those.

Something I did was to start off with my 1 and 4 pistons at TDC, and I also noted the position of the cams (made a drawing) so to lower the chance of timing the cams 180 degrees off.

A Vesrah gasket kit should probably supply most of your gasket needs. They are of good quality and you should get all of the gaskets and rubber seals that you need to do the job. The Vesrah kit also includes your exhaust gaskets.

I'm in the middle of the same job......big fun! :shock:

Hope it goes well.........

 

[49er]

Mark has given you some good advice.
No, the carb seals and o-rings are not included in a full gasket set. The Vesrah sets are very good. I used one on my recent 850 rebuild and don't have any problems or leaks.
Why did you need to fit a new head gasket? Did you do a compression test before deciding to pull the head and replace the gasket? I am asking about the compression figures because it may be prudent to re-lap the valves and seats while the head is off. If the mileage is high and your ring tension is sad, you may find that your motor will suddenly start burning more oil after a new gasket and valve re-lapping job.
If you do decide to do the valve job, make sure that you identify the bucket and shims for each valve so they are returned to their correct positions. Each valve assy will have its individual wear patterns so they should to be re-fitted in their correct positions.

 

[ron bayless]

Mark has given you some good advice.
No, the carb seals and o-rings are not included in a full gasket set. The Vesrah sets are very good. I used one on my recent 850 rebuild and don't have any problems or leaks.
Why did you need to fit a new head gasket? Did you do a compression test before deciding to pull the head and replace the gasket? I am asking about the compression figures because it may be prudent to re-lap the valves and seats while the head is off. If the mileage is high and your ring tension is sad, you may find that your motor will suddenly start burning more oil after a new gasket and valve re-lapping job.
If you do decide to do the valve job, make sure that you identify the bucket and shims for each valve so they are returned to their correct positions. Each valve assy will have its individual wear patterns so they should to be re-fitted in their correct positions.

i CAME BACK FROM AN 85 MILE RIDE ONE DAY AND THERE WAS OIL LEAKING OUT A LOT FROM AROUND THE 6 MM BOLT IN THE FRON OF THE MOTOR WHERE THE HEAD BOLTS ON,LEAKING ONTO THE EXHAUST AND smoking like crazy.Sorry about the caps,forgot to unlock it.then oil is leaking so badly it even got on the toe of my boot where i was shifting the bike.It looks to be the head gasket leaking all the way across the fron of the engine.The enigne runs really great,is very strong, and i never had any problems until now.

 

[ron bayless]

Mark has given you some good advice.
No, the carb seals and o-rings are not included in a full gasket set. The Vesrah sets are very good. I used one on my recent 850 rebuild and don't have any problems or leaks.
Why did you need to fit a new head gasket? Did you do a compression test before deciding to pull the head and replace the gasket? I am asking about the compression figures because it may be prudent to re-lap the valves and seats while the head is off. If the mileage is high and your ring tension is sad, you may find that your motor will suddenly start burning more oil after a new gasket and valve re-lapping job.
If you do decide to do the valve job, make sure that you identify the bucket and shims for each valve so they are returned to their correct positions. Each valve assy will have its individual wear patterns so they should to be re-fitted in their correct positions.

now you are way over my head.If i have to do a total engine rebuild i wont.Too much money for a bike that isnt worth as much as it will cost me to fix it.But it is very good advice though and i appreciate it.

 

[ron bayless]

Its really not that bad. Easy stuff first. You will need to (or should) replace the exhaust gaskets. Every time you take the carbs off, you should also re-synch them, at least I do. I'm not that great on starters, but it could be something as simple as the switch too, so check that. I don't know about your crank.

As you're taking the head off, probably best not to let the cam chain fall into the motor. I had someone hang on to mine when I pulled the head and the block. If it dropped down in there you could fish it out, but I didn't want to take that chance. Once your head and block are off it just hangs over the side of the motor.

Also when your removing your cam caps remove the bolts evenly. The cam is under some pressure from the valves pushing up on the lobes, so be ready for that (I wasn't and it was a little awkward).

Watch for those smaller bolts, usually one in the middle and two on the sides that bolt into the block...sometimes easy to forget.

*****Remember, if the head comes off, the block will almost certainly have to come off too, since you'll almost certainly break the lower seal. The head bolts hold the head and the block so when you take one off the other pretty much has to come off too.

Keep track of your valve shims, so they end up on the same valve that they left.......also check the large O-ring on the lower cylinder sleeves, probably should replace those.

Something I did was to start off with my 1 and 4 pistons at TDC, and I also noted the position of the cams (made a drawing) so to lower the chance of timing the cams 180 degrees off.

A Vesrah gasket kit should probably supply most of your gasket needs. They are of good quality and you should get all of the gaskets and rubber seals that you need to do the job. The Vesrah kit also includes your exhaust gaskets.

I'm in the middle of the same job......big fun! :shock:

Hope it goes well.........

Great information, and i really liked the way you prioitized it for me.next week do this,etc.I needed guidance on that aspect for sure.Thanks.

 

[SqDancerLynn1]

First you need to wash the motor to verify where the leak is. It could just be the cam cover or end seal ?? If you do tear it apart tie a wire to the cam chain Familiarize your self as to where the timing marks are & alignment

 

[jbs80106]

The starter (hurrah..something I can answer!)

The starter (hurrah..something I can answer!)

I recently had starter problems too. Would get the solinoid click but no crank. I pulled the starter, with lots of help from the gang on this site! :-D

Took the starter apart and cleaned it real well with WD40 to get the muck off. Checked my brushes and someone here suggested to just put it back together and see if it spins....it did and now it cranks strong...(got a whole nother set of problems now though.... )

 

[ron bayless]

I recently had starter problems too. Would get the solinoid click but no crank. I pulled the starter, with lots of help from the gang on this site! :-D

Took the starter apart and cleaned it real well with WD40 to get the muck off. Checked my brushes and someone here suggested to just put it back together and see if it spins....it did and now it cranks strong...(got a whole nother set of problems now though.... )

Thanks,i figured cleaning might do the trick too.And maybe some new brushes.

 

[ron bayless]

First you need to wash the motor to verify where the leak is. It could just be the cam cover or end seal ?? If you do tear it apart tie a wire to the cam chain Familiarize your self as to where the timing marks are & alignment

I know exactly where the oil is coming from.Around the 6 mm bolt in the center front of the motor.apparently that is where they always leak.I have been told I could possibly replace a seal here without even having to pull the cams or anything else apart.

 

[ron bayless]

Great information, and i really liked the way you prioitized it for me.next week do this,etc.I needed guidance on that aspect for sure.Thanks.

Where do you recommend getting parts from?
1.will have to regap all 8 valves now since i will be pullling the cams?
2.If the tappet shims need replacing where do you get stuff like this?
3.how do you get the cylinder block back over the rings? If number one and number 4 are at the top possibly you could compress the rings on one piston with you hand,and use a ring compressor on number 4?Where do you get a ring compressor that small? I saw where it was suggested to use a hose clamp.I see it compressiing the rings but how could you get the piston down inside the cylinder block with the clamp on.
5.once you get #1 and # 4 in, I suppose you have the same problem at the bottom getting #2 and # 3 rings compressed?

I hope you read this and get back to me.Thanks.

 

[ron bayless]

Its really not that bad. Easy stuff first. You will need to (or should) replace the exhaust gaskets. Every time you take the carbs off, you should also re-synch them, at least I do. I'm not that great on starters, but it could be something as simple as the switch too, so check that. I don't know about your crank.

As you're taking the head off, probably best not to let the cam chain fall into the motor. I had someone hang on to mine when I pulled the head and the block. If it dropped down in there you could fish it out, but I didn't want to take that chance. Once your head and block are off it just hangs over the side of the motor.

Also when your removing your cam caps remove the bolts evenly. The cam is under some pressure from the valves pushing up on the lobes, so be ready for that (I wasn't and it was a little awkward).

Watch for those smaller bolts, usually one in the middle and two on the sides that bolt into the block...sometimes easy to forget.

*****Remember, if the head comes off, the block will almost certainly have to come off too, since you'll almost certainly break the lower seal. The head bolts hold the head and the block so when you take one off the other pretty much has to come off too.

Keep track of your valve shims, so they end up on the same valve that they left.......also check the large O-ring on the lower cylinder sleeves, probably should replace those.

Something I did was to start off with my 1 and 4 pistons at TDC, and I also noted the position of the cams (made a drawing) so to lower the chance of timing the cams 180 degrees off.

A Vesrah gasket kit should probably supply most of your gasket needs. They are of good quality and you should get all of the gaskets and rubber seals that you need to do the job. The Vesrah kit also includes your exhaust gaskets.

I'm in the middle of the same job......big fun! :shock:

Hope it goes well.........

Mark,I was reading some old threads here.My bike has 33,000 miles on it.it says there if you are going to pull the cylinder block,then you need to rebore the cylinders,get new rings and maybe new pistons.Man! Then what about the crank? There is no stopping place.I was hoping to just do a head gasket replacement.Any advice?

 

[49er]

Mark,I was reading some old threads here.My bike has 33,000 miles on it.it says there if you are going to pull the cylinder block,then you need to rebore the cylinders,get new rings and maybe new pistons.Man! Then what about the crank? There is no stopping place.I was hoping to just do a head gasket replacement.Any advice?

Ron, unless your bike has sat unused for several years, at 33,000 miles, the internals of your motor should still be in good nick.
It's unusual that you suddenly had so much oil spewing from that tiny area. Do as Lyn suggested. Give the whole top end a good clean and take the bike for a short ride. Now recheck where the leak is coming from. If it is coming from that 6mm bolt area in such quantity, you would have blown part of the head gasket out in either #2 or #3 cylinder area. Either way your motor would sound like crap and perform poorly.
A compression test would give a good indication of the condition of the motor, before you start pull things apart.

 

[mushman]

My 1100 has been leaking around that 6mm front bolt ever since I did a complete rebuild a couple of years ago. I had a broken shift detent in the transmission, the bike would start popping out of gear so one winter I wheeled it into the dining room (not married) and tore it all down. I used an Atheana gasket kit and I can't remember if the o-rings for the two center head bolts were replaced then, but they're going to be now.

That was the best advice that other members offered up to me. I won't know for a couple weeks if that did the trick because I'm still snowed in, but I've got a good feeling that might be the oil leak source.

And don't be afraid to tear that sucker down. Get some good manuals, a Suzuki shop and a Clymer, take digital pictures, ask more (there are no dumb) questions here, and spend some dough on necessary tools. You'll use then again and the whole experience is good for the soul. It'll really be YOUR bike then. You'll know it inside and out. Zen, baby. Be the bike, Danny.

 

[ron bayless]

You'll know it inside and out. Zen, baby. Be the bike, Danny.
hA HA HAH HA HA.that's funny!

 

[ron bayless]

My 1100 has been leaking around that 6mm front bolt ever since I did a complete rebuild a couple of years ago. I had a broken shift detent in the transmission, the bike would start popping out of gear so one winter I wheeled it into the dining room (not married) and tore it all down. I used an Atheana gasket kit and I can't remember if the o-rings for the two center head bolts were replaced then, but they're going to be now.

That was the best advice that other members offered up to me. I won't know for a couple weeks if that did the trick because I'm still snowed in, but I've got a good feeling that might be the oil leak source.

And don't be afraid to tear that sucker down. Get some good manuals, a Suzuki shop and a Clymer, take digital pictures, ask more (there are no dumb) questions here, and spend some dough on necessary tools. You'll use then again and the whole experience is good for the soul. It'll really be YOUR bike then. You'll know it inside and out. Zen, baby. Be the bike, Danny.

ok baby!that's funny stuff.

 

[Big T]

Mark,I was reading some old threads here.My bike has 33,000 miles on it.it says there if you are going to pull the cylinder block,then you need to rebore the cylinders,get new rings and maybe new pistons.Man! Then what about the crank? There is no stopping place.I was hoping to just do a head gasket replacement.Any advice?

I think that the cam chain O ring (actually a rectangle) may have failed and that's where the oil is coming from.

Remember, after 25-30 years, these "rubber" materials deteriorate and harden, allowing the seal to break.

Other have recommended taking off the head and block. There are "rubber" O rings at the back corners between the block and the upper engine case that allow oil to circulate. These, along with the probable cracking of the seal of the base gasket when you pull the head, are why you should strip the motor to the case when you change the head gasket.

It will add an hour or so to pull the block, clean everything up, add the new base gasket and O rings and reload the pistons. It also keeps any gasket scrapings out of the cylinders.

You don't need to rebuild the motor. Fresh gaskets, and a carb sync will have you back on the road in a day or so.

Of course, you'll probably find a few other O rings or gaskets to change, or something that needs to be cleaned or painted, but that's why you own an old bike!

 

[ron bayless]

I think that the cam chain O ring (actually a rectangle) may have failed and that's where the oil is coming from.

Remember, after 25-30 years, these "rubber" materials deteriorate and harden, allowing the seal to break.

Other have recommended taking off the head and block. There are "rubber" O rings at the back corners between the block and the upper engine case that allow oil to circulate. These, along with the probable cracking of the seal of the base gasket when you pull the head, are why you should strip the motor to the case when you change the head gasket.

It will add an hour or so to pull the block, clean everything up, add the new base gasket and O rings and reload the pistons. It also keeps any gasket scrapings out of the cylinders.

You don't need to rebuild the motor. Fresh gaskets, and a carb sync will have you back on the road in a day or so.

Of course, you'll probably find a few other O rings or gaskets to change, or something that needs to be cleaned or painted, but that's why you own an old bike![/QUOTE

thanks for the input.i read where if you pull the block off then the rings wont seal properly any more.I am going to replace the square seals around the fron 6 mm bolt and see if that does it.Wiseco makes a rebuld kit for 527 dollars.But then you need someone to bore it out to 1085,then you should have someone do a valve job,then mic the crank to check it out,etc etc.If this was a kz 900 or cb 750 or some true classic i would do all that.So,if the simple seal replacement doesnt work i will probably not do anything else.Ron

 

[Big T]

You won't have any problem with the rings not sealing if you pull the block. What could possibly change at the rings? It's not like they stay in the same position on a daily basis. People just come up with such weird, unfounded ideas.

I had a bike motor that, after I rebuilt it, just pumped oil like a derrick. I must have taken it apart 4-5 times (lotsa money on a new gasket set each time) looking for the problem. Finally, I took it to another machinist/car restorer/2 stroke guy I know and he looked at it for 2 weeks and finally found a spot where the bore was messed up on one side. Honed it right out. The original machinist boring bar had broken down and gouged the cylinder (not that he'd admit to it)

I never had a problem with the rings not seating again after taking it apart.

Like I said, if you're going to take off the head, go all the way or you'll probably be taking it apart again to replace the base gasket.