Roughness Off Idle - Continued from Electrical Thread

[Nessism]

Ed can you have a look at the pic on my first post in this thread and give your opinion on the Morgan Carbtune levels.Thanks.

Don,

If that were my bike I'd have another go at getting the levels equal. I understand what you say about having the levels change when you cinch down the lock nuts, but all I can suggest is deal with it.
Motion Pro makes a really nifty tool to get down at those adjusters. Only costs $20 here in the states, but not sure about down your way.

Good luck and hope you figure it out.

 

[Suzuki_Don]

Don,

If that were my bike I'd have another go at getting the levels equal. I understand what you say about having the levels change when you cinch down the lock nuts, but all I can suggest is deal with it.
Motion Pro makes a really nifty tool to get down at those adjusters. Only costs $20 here in the states, but not sure about down your way.

Good luck and hope you figure it out.

Thanks Ed, I will pull the tank and adjust the mixture screws to 2 turns out and synch the carbs while the tank is off. I have a new jet needle on order from the UK, a 5C32, I already have three of them just need one more and they have the 5 clip grooves as well for more adjustments. So I can try them if these other things don't fix the problem.

 

[Guest]

Pete, I'm sure you will have fun when you get to that stage. JETTING IS FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Particularly when Mikuni have thousands of needles to pick from for one's very own applicatioon.

I'm actually looking forward to it Don! The Tranzac guy gave me a hint at a base setting to start with, one notch down on the needle and two sizes up on the mains, and then the fun will start. Discovered my needles are adjustable thankfully, although as you say there is a seemingly endless choice of needles from Mikuni if it's out...

Anyway, back on track... let us know how you go with the balancing...

 

[Suzuki_Don]

You put them all to the worst setting, 2 1/2. Try setting them all at 2, the plugs looked the best there.

OK. UPDATE.

I have installed the DYNA S ignition.

I have set the spark plug gap to .030", is that too wide?

I have set the pilot mixture screws to 2 turns out.

And these are the plug readings after a short run, probably about 4 to 5 km. Motor was hot when I got back but it was probably not really warmed up enough.

Compare to these plugs before changes were made.

Comments please.

P.S. The motor idles more smoothly and at lower revs. Down to about 950 instead of the 1100 when I had points.

I still have a roughness just off idle though, with the throttle open just the smallest amount, but the color of the plugs at idle looks good????

.

 

[Guest]

Nice one Don! I've joined the Dynatek club now too... hope to find out how good it is for myself on Thursday...

To my untrained eye, those plugs look heaps better, although 1 and 4 seem a little blacker than 2 or 3, but that could just be the pic...

Gotta be annoying that you haven't gotten that niggly little roughness sorted.

I wonder can you work out what throttle opening it is and hold it there long enough to get a plug chop done? I'm thinking a different taper needle might be needed or some of those fancy schmancy dual taper ones I've seen...

Of course as normal take my advice with a grain of salt because it's all just theory to me at the moment

 

[Suzuki_Don]

Nice one Don! I've joined the Dynatek club now too... hope to find out how good it is for myself on Thursday...

To my untrained eye, those plugs look heaps better, although 1 and 4 seem a little blacker than 2 or 3, but that could just be the pic...

Gotta be annoying that you haven't gotten that niggly little roughness sorted.

I wonder can you work out what throttle opening it is and hold it there long enough to get a plug chop done? I'm thinking a different taper needle might be needed or some of those fancy schmancy dual taper ones I've seen...

Of course as normal take my advice with a grain of salt because it's all just theory to me at the moment

Thanks for the BUMP Pete.

The roughness is just off idle and I think it is too lean. So as I mentioned earlier I have ordered another needle to complement the other three that I have. These needles are from a GSX750 and the parallel part of the needle at the top is .005" narrower than the ones I have now which should allow a bit more fuel between idle and 1/8th throttle. They also have the five grooves for easy adjustments.

I am getting the needle from a mob in Holland and they are absolutely useless. I ordered the needle three weeks ago and they haven't even dispatched it to me yet and they have said that when they do it could take up to four weeks to arrive.

If I knew somewhere else to get it I would but no luck so far finding another supplier.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for the BUMP Pete.

The roughness is just off idle and I think it is too lean. So as I mentioned earlier I have ordered another needle to complement the other three that I have. These needles are from a GSX750 and the parallel part of the needle at the top is .005" narrower than the ones I have now which should allow a bit more fuel between idle and 1/8th throttle. They also have the five grooves for easy adjustments.

I am getting the needle from a mob in Holland and they are absolutely useless. I ordered the needle three weeks ago and they haven't even dispatched it to me yet and they have said that when they do it could take up to four weeks to arrive.

If I knew somewhere else to get it I would but no luck so far finding another supplier.

That's a bugger Don! Sounds like it could be worth a shot too which makes it all the more frustrating.

Is it a standard Mikuni type needle? I'm guessing you've probably tried http://www.mikunioz.com/ and Sudco in the US etc.? I realise I'm more than likely grasping at straws but would love to help you avoid another 4 week wait after they finally ship the damn things...

I find it painful enough having to wait a couple of weeks for my bits to arrive from Boulevard Suzuki, but almost 2 months? Man you're more patient than I! I think I would've got the sandpaper out on the other needles in desperation by now...

 

[Suzuki_Don]

Yes Pete I have looked through both those dealers and they don't have what I need. Hatrick does only carry a set array of jet needles, the ones he can move quickly and definitely not the ones that I need. Just have to wait. One consellation is this bike is not a daily rider and is just a fun bike, so i have time on my side. And it's not like it's not rideable, it's just a stumble off idle.

 

[Guest]

Aaah I see! Bit of a bugger but I guess he's gotta make sure he can sell his stock...

Hopefully you'll get them before too much longer because even if it's not a daily rider it would sure be nice to get it purring along like you want it to

 

[Suzuki_Don]

Current update

Current update

UPDATE: As noted earlier in the thread I have fitted a Dyna S electronic ignition. Mixture screws are at 2 turns out as suggested by Tom (good suggestion).

I took the bike out the other day and felt there was still some stumbling just off idle, but the bike was not fully warmed up.

Yesterday I put 128 miles on the bike and I could not really feel a problem. It seemed to be pulling pretty well from throttle shutoff to the position where it had been stumbling before just off idle, on the cruise position. I still have to have a look at the plugs to check their general color, will do that tonight. Hopefully all the evidence of richness has been burnt away by now.

I have purchased a richer set of needles from Chef which are on their way to me and expected shortly as well as two sets of pilot jets from Z1 (one set leaner and one set richer than what I have now, #40 & #45). For future insurance.

There was very slight pinging under load as the motor got hotter which was not there when it was warming up. I could only just hear it with my full-face on, I could feel it as much as hear it. So I need to retard the base plate for the Dyna S a fraction. That should put both modules in the correct position without adjusting them individually.

Then the final test will be for a fast blat on the Wiseman's Ferry Road and follow the river to it's end to take advantage of those high speed corners where I first noticed this problem before.

A couple of extra things. When I had points in the motor it was extremely hard to kick start, now just a prod and half swing on the kick start and it bursts into life. It also idles more smoothly and at lower rpm than before. It also appears to have a few more hp when riding it on the open road, seat of the pants stuff, you know!!

 

[Steve]

Sorry for popping in a bit late, but I just saw this thread.

... -- it is really only No. 3 that is off a bit.
...

Actually, since #3 is the "master" carb, it's all the others that are off.

Can I go with a wider plug gap now I have electronic ignition?

I have not had the pleasure of playing with a Dyna system, but are you SURE you have 'electronic ignition'? :-k

I am under the impression (and could easily be mistaken) that the Dyna system operates much like the ignitor on the newer bikes, in that it basically only replaces the points. It does nothing to enhance the size of the spark that comes from the coils, it only controls when it happens.

Someone who knows more about the Dyna, please correct me if I am wrong.

P.S. The motor idles more smoothly and at lower revs. Down to about 950 instead of the 1100 when I had points.

It's nice that it will idle that slowly, but Suzuki recommends an idle speed of about 1100 to minimize the jerky transitions on the rotating parts that happen at slower speeds. Larger engines have more flywheel effect and can idle slower, but the 550 needs to keep it up there a bit.

.

 

[Guest]

Adjust the 2&3 first moving the whole timing plate and then do the 1&4 by just moving that pickup on the Dyna S.
I blew up a motor by having the 2&3 pickup too advanced.
Measure the distance between the F and advance mark on your timing (1&4) and make your own mark on the 2&3. Line the motor up to the full advance mark and move the rotor with your fingers until the plug fires when it is fully advanced.

 

[Suzuki_Don]

It's nice that it will idle that slowly, but Suzuki recommends an idle speed of about 1100 to minimize the jerky transitions on the rotating parts that happen at slower speeds. Larger engines have more flywheel effect and can idle slower, but the 550 needs to keep it up there a bit.

.

Steve. Point taken.

 

[Suzuki_Don]

Adjust the 2&3 first moving the whole timing plate and then do the 1&4 by just moving that pickup on the Dyna S.
I blew up a motor by having the 2&3 pickup too advanced.
Measure the distance between the F and advance mark on your timing (1&4) and make your own mark on the 2&3. Line the motor up to the full advance mark and move the rotor with your fingers until the plug fires when it is fully advanced.

Thanks Bill for the comments. I will make sure I do that before I take the bike out again. I checked the plugs tonight and the color looks good and there are no specks of aluminium on the insulators.

I set my timing with a timing light. I do both modules in turn with the clampy thingo on #1 and then #2 plug wires. It's running at 14deg initial so will take it back to 12deg on both sets of cylinders and see how that runs.

 

[Guest]

So Don, can I take it you're happy with the Dynatek then?

Glad to hear you're getting it sorted too, bet it feels good!

 

[Suzuki_Don]

So Don, can I take it you're happy with the Dynatek then?

Glad to hear you're getting it sorted too, bet it feels good!

Pete I am REALLY happy with the Dyna S. Extra smoothness, more power and excellent starting. And it is so easy to do the timing once the timing marks have been made a bit more distinct with white paint. Easy with the modern timing lights to check if the advance/retard unit is working OK as well. Although I believe you do not have mechanical advance/retard.

I am really enjoying the bike now. It will get to a hundred easy by just going through the gears and I don't really do any more than 6k, but it seems to gets there really quickly.

When I was out on the bike the other day I took some readings of speeds in different gears at 4,000rpm. 4th was 47mph. 5th was 53mph. 6th was 57mph. And considering my motor will rev to 9,500rpm that equates to a top speed of 111mph in 4th. And my bike is geared a bit lower than a standard 650 so it should pull the revs (9,500rpm) in the higher gears (maybe not 6th), but certainly in the others.

But I am certainly enjoying riding it now. It is so smooooooooooooooooth on the road.

 

[Matchless]

Hi Don,
I know I am a bit late, I have ordered jets from these guys before
http://www.nichecycle.com/Items.aspx?code=MIKUNIJETS&key=cat
Maybe you know them.

 

[Suzuki_Don]

Hi Don,
I know I am a bit late, I have ordered jets from these guys before
http://www.nichecycle.com/Items.aspx?code=MIKUNIJETS&key=cat
Maybe you know them.

Thanks Andre, I seem to have it sorted now. A few more long rides just to make sure the jetting is correct.

 

[Guest]

Pete I am REALLY happy with the Dyna S. Extra smoothness, more power and excellent starting. And it is so easy to do the timing once the timing marks have been made a bit more distinct with white paint. Easy with the modern timing lights to check if the advance/retard unit is working OK as well. Although I believe you do not have mechanical advance/retard.

I am really enjoying the bike now. It will get to a hundred easy by just going through the gears and I don't really do any more than 6k, but it seems to gets there really quickly.

When I was out on the bike the other day I took some readings of speeds in different gears at 4,000rpm. 4th was 47mph. 5th was 53mph. 6th was 57mph. And considering my motor will rev to 9,500rpm that equates to a top speed of 111mph in 4th. And my bike is geared a bit lower than a standard 650 so it should pull the revs (9,500rpm) in the higher gears (maybe not 6th), but certainly in the others.

But I am certainly enjoying riding it now. It is so smooooooooooooooooth on the road.

Excellent Don! Very glad to hear your persistence has paid off!

Now I'm gonna havta get my jetting spot on when I get to that point... you've inspired me

Hi Don,
I know I am a bit late, I have ordered jets from these guys before
http://www.nichecycle.com/Items.aspx?code=MIKUNIJETS&key=cat
Maybe you know them.

Good link Andre! Those jets are a great price, will keep them in mind when I'm at the stage Don was...

 

[Suzuki_Don]

Pete, I will be watching your thread for the jetting procedure that you will use. You will have to get it on the road first though, as it's hard to do the jet testing by running the bike in the shed. A few miles on the tarmac can tell you a lot.