Schematic and guide to fit relays

[rafael garza]

Thanks alot my email is rjgarza@pasadenaisd.org. i have a gs650 with a weak spark and hope this might get me closer to my goal. Oh i also seem to have some type of ground issue. it was burnt from coils to battery. thanks again. Your wisdom is my confidents :shock:

 

[Matchless]

Not sure if this will be clear otherwise its best to rather download the PDF

 

[Matchless]

Hi rafael garza,
I have sent you a full copy. Just edit your post and remove your email address so that someone does not start spamming you, as the forum can be read by non members as well and these things unfortunately do happen in this world.

 

[Guest]

hi matchless
i posted a question for you in the Voltage Loos Data thread, but maybe we should continue the conversation here as the other thread was started by FF so i already feel bad for hijacking it
cheers

 

[BassCliff]

Genius at work!

Genius at work!

Hi Mr. Matchless,

I just wanted to say thanks and let you know that I've been following this thread. You do great work.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Matchless]

i have a heavy strap from the batery "-" to the frame. the earth from the RR goes to the frame
are you saying it would be better to link the RR neg directly to battery "-"?

also, if i'm reading your writing correctly, when instaling relays i should use thick neg wire to the frame (close to the relay) but also run a thinner wire directly to the bat "-".
what is the downfall in NOT running this second wire? __________________

psyguy,
I have just copied your question from the other thread. I will try and explain myself a bit better. If you have a heavy strap from the battery to the frame, thats good. If your RR has an earth to the frame thats correct. If these terminations to the frame are a way apart and old, rusty, dirty etc, then you may have an earth problem. The simplest way is to ensure this does not cause problems is to just bridge the two connections with an lug and wire right on the same termination. Now you have a nice good copper path in case your wire to frame is not so good.
On the second part I am not exactly sure what you are asking, but will try. If we are talking headlamp relay here, we mean to provide a nice heavy (next size up from stock) copper wire to provide the positive to the bulb, switched via the relay contacts to either the Hi or Lo beam. This wire should ideally run back to a fuse near the battery and then directly to the battery pos terminal.
We also need a good earth wire, so again we have to run a nice heavy earth wire from the headlamp bulb back to the battery box and either terminate on the screw with your heavy strap already going to the battery negative or go directly to the negative terminal.
A thinner earth wire for the headlamp relay coil can just pick up the earth from either the old earth wire to the headlamp globe or be tied in with your new earth. It does not have to go all the way back to the battery as this carries very little current.
Hope this helps to clarify you question.

 

[Matchless]

Hi Mr. Matchless,

I just wanted to say thanks and let you know that I've been following this thread. You do great work.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

Mr BassCliff,
Its nice to help someone, especially after getting so much help from the folks on the forum. My relays, 12volt sockets and blade fuses and new fusebox is laying here waiting for the new wires to be run. My front calipers are laying in parts cleaned up and ready for a respray. After the bike is running again I will be doing the extra wires, relays and replace the complete fuse box with a 8 blade fuse type, giving the extra fuses I need, but that is still a way off.
Your comments are appreciated.

 

[Guest]

We also need a good earth wire, so again we have to run a nice heavy earth wire from the headlamp bulb back to the battery box and either terminate on the screw with your heavy strap already going to the battery negative or go directly to the negative terminal.

matchless,
the above clarifies the headlamp relay instalation, thanks!

my other question was, what is the downside of NOT using a separate/new thicker-than-stock earth wire to the baterry, but using the original earth wire only?

also, in case of the coils' relay, the earth wire on the coils is sealed/glued in, so i assume there is no way to replace it with a thicker wire?

 

[Matchless]

matchless,
the above clarifies the headlamp relay instalation, thanks!

my other question was, what is the downside of NOT using a separate/new thicker-than-stock earth wire to the baterry, but using the original earth wire only?

also, in case of the coils' relay, the earth wire on the coils is sealed/glued in, so i assume there is no way to replace it with a thicker wire?

OK the original earth wire usually is not switched and should have less plugged in/out terminals, so there should be less chance of any bad contacts in that wire itself, but it is 28years old like most everything else. If you are running a heavier positive wire you have upgraded only half of the current path which in itself is already a large improvement, so doing the other half, the negative wire, makes good sense. If the frame connections are good and metal of the frame can serve as an conductor in place or parallel with part of the earth wire, you may be ok with thinner earth wires which are then shorter. If you measure for a voltage drop always measure with a reference point directly on the battery.
Have the bike switched on and killswitch on in both cases below, so that current is flowing:
1) Negative battery pole and the positive tag on the coils will test your battery wire via all the connectors and switches.
2)Positive pole on the battery to the earth wire on you coils should indicate anything bad on the earth wire.
3) Going directly across the coils and comparing with voltage directly across the battery will show you the total loss

So what I am saying, it is good to do, but most likely not really necessary on the earth wire. Running any slightly heavier wires than stock when installing bypass/slave relays is really just a good idea, as bigger is better, but not really essential as you are already in the positives case installing a complete NEW path and cutting out the old problems. On the other hand installing thinner wires will more likely be a problem.

 

[Guest]

matchless, thank you so much for puting this much work into explaining things to me :-D

while i CAN do the mods without knowing all of the above, i do like to know WHY i would be doing things and WHAT it is that i'm attempting

hopefully your writing helps others, im sure plenty of people read this post

one other question that i have:

the wires on my coils are soldered and sealed
when doing the coils' relay mod, does it pay to solder the new pos. wire onto the coils as oposed to just butt-joining it to the existing (old/thin) wire?
while i can see the benefits of a NEW THICKER wire that i'd be using and one less connection, i wonder if going to the trouble of (un)soldering the wires makes all that much difference in the end?

 

[Matchless]

psyguy,
Thanks for all your questions, these have really helped me to refine a part of my guide. I have rewritten the coil relay part with some pictures as well. The new version has been uploaded and is the link in the first post. Have a look at it, it also answers your last question. Hopefully this will make the coil relay installation easier to understand. Mounting location shown is not ideal as the legs do not face down, so use a waterproof relay or seal yours if not and put dielectric grease on the terminals.
Let me know how it is going or feel free if something is still not clear. I respect a person who first tries to understand why and how it is done before doing it.

 

[Guest]

thanks

thanks

matchless, glad to know i asked meaningful questions

the engine on my bike was my first engine-rebuild i ever did (i stripped it down to the very last bolt)
in the process i got quite practically familiar with a lot of mechanical terms, concepts, issues, etc that i had known about only in theory thus far

however, i never touched any electrics (other than minor repairs/maintenance), hence my "electrical" questions to you

my desire is to do a ground up restoration of a motorbike (gs1000e being at the top of my wishlist), so the more i can learn about my current bike, the better

thanks for your help

 

[Matchless]

You have already been where I intend to go. I have completely done the CV carbs, valve clearences, sync, colortune. Replaced starter clutch and stator. The motor runs nicely, starts easily. Busy doing the brakes, master cylinder, calipers etc. Once everything works properly, I intend a complete strip and powdercoat of the frame. Then I will service, rebuild, repaint, clean, polish each part as I assemble. I am taking it slowly at the moment as I know once I have the bare frame, then I will be spending most of my time on the bike and I am really looking forward to it. I have designed a tiny 2 led indicator that can be installed to indicate if the bike overcharges or undercharges. If all is well the lights stay off and do not bother you. I still need to figure a way of fitting it as well.

 

[Guest]

thanks so much to everyone on the hard work on all this.....my bike thanks you as well!!!

 

[J_C]

Sorry for two dumb questions...

1) Is there a special size spade connector that links up with a relay? A new pair of horns are on the way to me with their own relay, and I'm not sure any of the "variety pack" of electrical connectors I have will fit.

2) Edit: Disregard #2. I get it now.

Thank you very much

 

[Matchless]

If you are using the standard type of relays as shown in the guide, then you can use standard female spade connectors for the relay.

 

[J_C]

Great thanks! Your PDF has had me racking my brain for the past two days. This stuff is largely new to me but I'm starting to get the hang of it! I really appreciate the time you've put into it.

I'm limiting myself to just the horn relay, then perhaps the diodes to flashers. I may do the headlight relay if I see a lot of voltage loss.

 

[Matchless]

Please download the PDF again, it had a mistake in it!

Please download the PDF again, it had a mistake in it!

I am a bit embarrassed. I messed up on the coils modification description part in my pdf and have corrected it. There have been 9 downloads of the incorrect one unfortunately. Please download again form the link in the first post in this tread. I wanted to do the horn relay next and was looking at it as well and got my lines a bit crossed.
I will just keep the one link on the first page as this is document that may require a few updates until it is 100% complete, especially in the instructions side.
Apologies again please. [-o<

 

[Guest]

hopefully, no fire incidents so far from faulty wireing following your instructions, matchless :shock:






just teasing you :-D you put so much hard work into the subject

 

[Matchless]

hopefully, no fire incidents so far from faulty wireing following your instructions, matchless :shock:

just teasing you :-D you put so much hard work into the subject

At the time I was also looking at fitting the horn relay on the other side and as I was typing the steps I must have just got confused. Suddenly this morning it struck me that I had never described the wiring to the igniter and then I saw what I had done #-o After considering hanging or shooting myself I decided that was too much trouble and just updated the PDF. I can just hope that all 9 people who downloaded has or will see the update.[-o<

Thats the punishment for having a one track mind, never try 2 things at the same time, only woman have that gift, knitting, watching TV, talking, listening, making food, sorting out the kids all at the same time.
So for me when I'm thinking I'm thinking, when I'm busy with my bike, I'm busy with my bike, don't ask me about my bike when I'm watching TV or how to set the valves while I am busy cleaning the carbs!!! :-s But I have improved, I can already watch TV and handle a beer at the same time, so multitasking is something one can learn if its not in the genes.

My apologies again for the error, I just hope no-one applied it yet