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Shaving pounds to add performance, ? on component weight
- Thread starter Chuck78
- Start date
I was just about to give up and go yank the 81 GS650 caliper off at the junkyard after comparing brake pad heights on the GS500 caliper vs an 81 GS1100E caliper. Even if mounted on the same older caliper bracket as the GS750/1100 etc, the GS500 pads in the GS500 caliper would give you a shorter rotor contact surface with a maximum effective rotor diameter of 260mm (good if you want to use those GS550 front 260mm rotors). If I am using this GSX1100F 88-93 rotor that arrived today (woohoo!), the pad would fall short of the outside of the rotor by 7mm while contacting the inner part of the rotor where it should. Well, then I looked up GSX1100F brake pads, and saw that they are the same pad style, but the GSX1100F has friction material much higher up (7 - 7.5mm I presume) on the backing plates. This is a plus, and definitely on the right track for what I'm trying to do. This also makes me wonder if the 83-86 GS550E pads are the same, shorter style since it has a compact zero offset rotor as well. This could potentially mean that the really cool looking GS550E 83-86 caliper hanger would be the correct distance for the 275mm rotors, but drawback is like what Postman Pat did, just have to drill the axle hole out from 17mm to 20mm.
I had considered plug welding the mounting holes on the GS1100E caliper hanger bracket that I have and redrilling the holes where I need them, but welding aluminum is a chore, and welding cast aluminum especially is a chore for someone like myself who isn't very experienced with aluminum and only has a MIG spool gun (and not a TIG).
WELL.... I then noticed that the 88-93 GSX1100F (duh, OF COURSE!) uses the same style Tokico caliper as the 89-02 GS500, but uses a 275mm rear rotor! So I'm going to look into a GSX1100F hanger bracket and pads since I have this GS500 caliper, and I think that will complete this setup. I'll have to confirm the 75mm vs 80mm width. The BIG Tokico rear caliper off the older GS's uses wider pads to fit the wider caliper opening, but I speculate that all of the newer style Tokico rear calipers that I'm discussing use the slightly narrower width pads like the GS500, which will not accept the 1st gen gs rear pad width in the narrower (front to rear on bike) caliper.
Still unsure if the 89-02 GS500 calipers share the 80mm mounting width or not, but that photo does indicate that unless that one has the model of bike mis-labeled.I'm getting conflicting info on the caliper mounting bolt spacings. The seller of that cool GS550E 83-86 hanger and caliper in the above photo said that the center to center spacing was 75mm, just like this 2003-2010 GS500 caliper I have here, but the photo above seems to indicate that this 1997 GS500 caliper has the 80mm spacing, as 80mm = 3 5/32" approximately.
I had considered plug welding the mounting holes on the GS1100E caliper hanger bracket that I have and redrilling the holes where I need them, but welding aluminum is a chore, and welding cast aluminum especially is a chore for someone like myself who isn't very experienced with aluminum and only has a MIG spool gun (and not a TIG).
WELL.... I then noticed that the 88-93 GSX1100F (duh, OF COURSE!) uses the same style Tokico caliper as the 89-02 GS500, but uses a 275mm rear rotor! So I'm going to look into a GSX1100F hanger bracket and pads since I have this GS500 caliper, and I think that will complete this setup. I'll have to confirm the 75mm vs 80mm width. The BIG Tokico rear caliper off the older GS's uses wider pads to fit the wider caliper opening, but I speculate that all of the newer style Tokico rear calipers that I'm discussing use the slightly narrower width pads like the GS500, which will not accept the 1st gen gs rear pad width in the narrower (front to rear on bike) caliper.
Still unsure if the 89-02 GS500 calipers share the 80mm mounting width or not, but that photo does indicate that unless that one has the model of bike mis-labeled.I'm getting conflicting info on the caliper mounting bolt spacings. The seller of that cool GS550E 83-86 hanger and caliper in the above photo said that the center to center spacing was 75mm, just like this 2003-2010 GS500 caliper I have here, but the photo above seems to indicate that this 1997 GS500 caliper has the 80mm spacing, as 80mm = 3 5/32" approximately.
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Another note, good or bad maybe depending... BEWARE some GSXR calipers look practically identical to the Tokico caliper I am trying to use, but they have the bleeders upside-down and the brake stay mount on the opposite end for underslung placement of the caliper below the axle instead of the old school top placement. I don't really wanna relocate and re-weld the brake stay mount on my aluminum GS1100E alloy swinger, although a custom brake torque arm/stay that extended to the steel frame would be easy and keeping with the newer trends of modern sport bikes (and lowering the center of gravity with braking parts close to the ground). 90's GSXR calipers and even an 02 or 03 Hayabusa Tokico rear caliper looked like they'd be good candidates for this kind of setup.
And an underslung caliper on a 70's vintage looking bike sure would throw a few people off, especially since most of these parts still look fairly vintage! Buying a used caliper and chopping and extending my GS1100E brake stay wouldn't cost much at all though! Food for thought, someone else PLEASE do this mod!
I may eventually, but if I can end up using this GS500 caliper with the GSX1100F hanger, that is the obvious immediate plan.
I suppose that's another option, although I literally JUST nabbed a Bandit 1200 brake stay for $13 shipped that has a nice offset to clear a massive tire and I hear is a nice fit on the GS1100E swing arm to work around having to bash the 1100E brake stay with a hammer to clear the tire.
And an underslung caliper on a 70's vintage looking bike sure would throw a few people off, especially since most of these parts still look fairly vintage! Buying a used caliper and chopping and extending my GS1100E brake stay wouldn't cost much at all though! Food for thought, someone else PLEASE do this mod!
I may eventually, but if I can end up using this GS500 caliper with the GSX1100F hanger, that is the obvious immediate plan.I suppose that's another option, although I literally JUST nabbed a Bandit 1200 brake stay for $13 shipped that has a nice offset to clear a massive tire and I hear is a nice fit on the GS1100E swing arm to work around having to bash the 1100E brake stay with a hammer to clear the tire.
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T
TheCafeKid
Guest
Heck if you had access to a decent band saw capable of cutting billet Alu and a drill press and sander, you could probably build a decent looking one yourself.
Agemax
Forum Guru
exactly, you could make the initial bracket yourself this way and there are quite a few people on here who have a milling machine who could dress it up for you.
you can get the aluminium billets cheap as hell on ebay if you look.
If I could have my friend mill the mounting surface heights flat into a piece of aluminum, I'm sure I could "relieve" the rest of the block of aluminum myself, but on a twin opposed piston caliper especially, I don't want to have the margin of error that I might end up with using a belt sander table and bandsaw... I do have a portaband and a drill press, and access to a nice bandsaw table, but I'll leave this kind of thing to the machinists when a high degree of accuracy us required. I would feel more confident using my MIG spool gun and filling the holes on an OEM hanger to redrill where I needed them.
Another note that was on my mind last night, I have a suspicion that the cool looking 83-86 GS550E hanger bracket (used for the shorter 260mm rotors), GSXR600 and GSXR750 hangers, and the GS500 hangers that all share the same cool drilled out lightweight look, well, that most of these are probably the same. GS500 uses 250mm rear rotor, GS550E uses 260, not sure on the others. The shorter pads would work with the caliper in the same location as the bigger rotor, but those pads take it from a tall 275mm rotor to a shorter friction surface height 260mm effective diameter rotor even though there is more height in the caliper to stuff the bigger rotor (7.5mm more). On the GS500 and others using a 250mm rotor, I suspect that the hanger brackets are 5mm shorter, but one designed for a 260mm rotor and the short pads that don't fill out the caliper would seemingly work on a 275mm rotor just by swapping 88-93 GSX1100F pads into it, although they came on smaller bikes and you may need a 20mm reamer or drill bit to enlarge the axle hole.
Another note that was on my mind last night, I have a suspicion that the cool looking 83-86 GS550E hanger bracket (used for the shorter 260mm rotors), GSXR600 and GSXR750 hangers, and the GS500 hangers that all share the same cool drilled out lightweight look, well, that most of these are probably the same. GS500 uses 250mm rear rotor, GS550E uses 260, not sure on the others. The shorter pads would work with the caliper in the same location as the bigger rotor, but those pads take it from a tall 275mm rotor to a shorter friction surface height 260mm effective diameter rotor even though there is more height in the caliper to stuff the bigger rotor (7.5mm more). On the GS500 and others using a 250mm rotor, I suspect that the hanger brackets are 5mm shorter, but one designed for a 260mm rotor and the short pads that don't fill out the caliper would seemingly work on a 275mm rotor just by swapping 88-93 GSX1100F pads into it, although they came on smaller bikes and you may need a 20mm reamer or drill bit to enlarge the axle hole.
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O
ozman
Guest
maybe im taking weight reduction to seriously 
this little number on the steel clutch centre of the GS1000 saves 128 grams !!
example of how seriously POPS took weight reduction
love what he did to the selector drum
this little number on the steel clutch centre of the GS1000 saves 128 grams !!
example of how seriously POPS took weight reduction
love what he did to the selector drum
O
ozman
Guest
abit more weight saving
magnesium sump
sump plug moved so oil can be drained with 4 into 1 pipe still on
magnesium sump
sump plug moved so oil can be drained with 4 into 1 pipe still on
O
ozman
Guest
sold right here by me !
just waiting on my magnesium guy to get back to me on the finished price
ill let you know once i have a price
XR69 style magnesium sprocket cover 600 grams
standard suzuki cover is 1.3 kilos
210 plus postage
just waiting on my magnesium guy to get back to me on the finished price
ill let you know once i have a price
XR69 style magnesium sprocket cover 600 grams
standard suzuki cover is 1.3 kilos
210 plus postage
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Well I spent a whole lot of time in the EBC brakes catalog this evening, and I concluded that the smaller and lighter GS500 / 83-86 GS550 caliper only has pads available for shorter height (braking surface) rotors. If I used an 91-ish GSX1100G bracket, I could mount the caliper, but with the rotor I am basing my rear brakes on, the only pads available would only contact 32mm out of the 35mm of braking surface. The RF900RR pads maybe 33mm.
So beyond the larger stock calipers, the 81-83 GS650 style caliper that came on many other models after those years is the EASIEST option, and slightly narrower and lighter than the wider original, yet uses the same pads. These pads have a little more friction material than the rotor really uses, and the 88-93 GSX1100F Katana / 83-86 GSX1150E (GS1150E?) have a newer design caliper that uses the same width pads and look to be an exact fit of friction material for the 35mm of stock rear rotor or the front rotor off the same bike that I am planning on using in place of my stock rear rotor. The calipers are longer front to rear on the bike, but not a solid block of aluminim as the original older style big GS caliper appears.
Since they didn't use the GS650 style caliper on the later models of 1100-1150cc bikes (they did use the 650 type caliper on the shafty 1100's and 850's, as well as the 83 750E and others), and they used the newer (usually gold painted) Tokico caliper on two really serious bikes, the 83-86 GSX1150E and the 88-93 GSX1100F Katana, there must be some performance advantage to using that caliper. Does anyone have one of these they can compare weights on?
Also, the '00-03 VL1500 Suzuki uses those pads and a 276mm rear rotor, and a Tokico caliper like the GS500/83-86GS550E caliper I was trying to use (but fit with larger pads appropriate to this rotor), but a completely different style bracket. More bracket material, but the most minimal caliper that fits the pads that this rotor needs.
So beyond the larger stock calipers, the 81-83 GS650 style caliper that came on many other models after those years is the EASIEST option, and slightly narrower and lighter than the wider original, yet uses the same pads. These pads have a little more friction material than the rotor really uses, and the 88-93 GSX1100F Katana / 83-86 GSX1150E (GS1150E?) have a newer design caliper that uses the same width pads and look to be an exact fit of friction material for the 35mm of stock rear rotor or the front rotor off the same bike that I am planning on using in place of my stock rear rotor. The calipers are longer front to rear on the bike, but not a solid block of aluminim as the original older style big GS caliper appears.
Since they didn't use the GS650 style caliper on the later models of 1100-1150cc bikes (they did use the 650 type caliper on the shafty 1100's and 850's, as well as the 83 750E and others), and they used the newer (usually gold painted) Tokico caliper on two really serious bikes, the 83-86 GSX1150E and the 88-93 GSX1100F Katana, there must be some performance advantage to using that caliper. Does anyone have one of these they can compare weights on?
Also, the '00-03 VL1500 Suzuki uses those pads and a 276mm rear rotor, and a Tokico caliper like the GS500/83-86GS550E caliper I was trying to use (but fit with larger pads appropriate to this rotor), but a completely different style bracket. More bracket material, but the most minimal caliper that fits the pads that this rotor needs.
W
wegs426
Guest
Another note, good or bad maybe depending... BEWARE some GSXR calipers look practically identical to the Tokico caliper I am trying to use, but they have the bleeders upside-down and the brake stay mount on the opposite end for underslung placement of the caliper below the axle instead of the old school top placement. I don't really wanna relocate and re-weld the brake stay mount on my aluminum GS1100E alloy swinger, although a custom brake torque arm/stay that extended to the steel frame would be easy and keeping with the newer trends of modern sport bikes (and lowering the center of gravity with braking parts close to the ground). 90's GSXR calipers and even an 02 or 03 Hayabusa Tokico rear caliper looked like they'd be good candidates for this kind of setup.
And an underslung caliper on a 70's vintage looking bike sure would throw a few people off, especially since most of these parts still look fairly vintage! Buying a used caliper and chopping and extending my GS1100E brake stay wouldn't cost much at all though! Food for thought, someone else PLEASE do this mod!
I suppose that's another option, although I literally JUST nabbed a Bandit 1200 brake stay for $13 shipped that has a nice offset to clear a massive tire and I hear is a nice fit on the GS1100E swing arm to work around having to bash the 1100E brake stay with a hammer to clear the tire.
Ask and you will receive.
I'm putting the final touches on the mod but it should be done this week.
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Been a while since I posted on this thread. I ended up using the same front rotor 90-ish gsx1100f (?) and the 83-86 gs1150 caliper with new ebc organic pads. I had to shorten the standard gs750/gs1100 steel brake stay and chop the end and narrow it to fit the gs1150 caliper. Carb cleaner and a toothbrush stripped all the gold pai t off. I was going to paint it black, but it looked nice in bare aluminium and I was impatient, so I left it silver.
Braking is sufficient, and substantially lighter than the heavy and overpowering stock 295mm diameter 7mm thick rotor setup. I was more than happy to swap the 1100e alloy swinger and this brake setup along with an alloy DID 3.50x18 rim in order to drop a whole lot of unspring & rotational weight in order to make the bike handle & perform better and make up for a few pounds added from going from stock 110/90-18 (4.25x18?) Tire up to a wider low profile 140/70-18. The 140 really helped with handling, although I yjink a 130 rear and 100 front would probably have been sufficient.
Braking is sufficient, and substantially lighter than the heavy and overpowering stock 295mm diameter 7mm thick rotor setup. I was more than happy to swap the 1100e alloy swinger and this brake setup along with an alloy DID 3.50x18 rim in order to drop a whole lot of unspring & rotational weight in order to make the bike handle & perform better and make up for a few pounds added from going from stock 110/90-18 (4.25x18?) Tire up to a wider low profile 140/70-18. The 140 really helped with handling, although I yjink a 130 rear and 100 front would probably have been sufficient.
Steve
GS Whisperer
realistically, if I do the electric start and battery delete, I am looking at probably 25 pounds more savings with that and a couple other little mods like the trunk delete, detabbing frame, lighter/smaller gauges, deleting some extra unused wiring, aluminium handlebars, etc. I don't think I will remove the passenger footpeg frames and adding rear sets as I had originally planned, but it is still a possibility.I might still have my machinist friend make up some aluminum axle spacers, but he is so darn busy as Am I. If I pull my engine this winter to do the 920cc big bore upgrade and fix some oil leaks, I might end up getting some chromoly tubing and doing that frame bracing, which hopefully will only add about 4-5 lbs total with chromoly steel.
so about 480 with a half tank of gas is about where I will end up for now without going to the extremes. I'm actually really happy with the way to bike handles as is, dropping 45-ish lbs made a NICE difference in maneuverability
so about 480 with a half tank of gas is about where I will end up for now without going to the extremes. I'm actually really happy with the way to bike handles as is, dropping 45-ish lbs made a NICE difference in maneuverability
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You might be better off by fitting a GS 1000 engine in your frame as I believe it is lighter than the GS 750 powerplant?realistically, if I do the electric start and battery delete, I am looking at probably 25 pounds more savings with that and a couple other little mods like the trunk delete, detabbing frame, lighter/smaller gauges, deleting some extra unused wiring, aluminium handlebars, etc. I don't think I will remove the passenger footpeg frames and you rear sets as I had originally planned but it is still a possibility.I might still have my machinist friend make up some aluminum axle spacers, but he is so darn busy as Am I. If I pull my engine this winter to do the 920cc big bore upgrade and fix some oil leaks, I might end up getting some chromoly tubing and doing that frame bracing, which hopefully will only add about 4-5 lbs total with chromoly steel.
so about 480 with a half tank of gas is about where I will end up for now without going to the extremes. I'm actually really happy with the way to bike handles as is, dropping 45-ish lbs made a NICE difference in maneuverability
Also, the GSXR 750/1100 first generation wheels are lighter than the spoked wheels
yes that is true, but my criteria were to have a classic looking bike with kickstart and spoked wheels. I really don't like the look of the modern sport bikes creeping into my vintage classic 1970's Suzuki via mid-1980's sport bike parts. I'm going for the lightest barebones vintage 70's looking bike with as many go-fast/brake/wheel/suspension parts on it as I can afford. It is true that the GS1000 engine is lighter than the GS750 engine primarily due to a much lighter crankshaft and kickstarter delete. But on a street driven engine, if I just delete the battery & electric start, now my bike is overall lighter than the GS1000 engine would have it - as the GS1000 has no provisions for a kickstarter, therefore you cannot delete the battery and starter motor and associated gears.
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I understand
The other day I saw a modern (?)Triumph 750 with spoked wheels.
I'm sure the rear wheel hub is much lighter than the one that came on the GS 750.
Of course the chain is on the wrong side but I suppose it could be turned around?
