Short video and description on "counter-steering"

[Guest]

I'm sure many of us know this, but it's still interesting.

 

[TxGSrider]

Maybe its because during basic Motorcycle Safety courses the speeds aren't usually high enough to practice counter steering, but they didn't even mention it while I was there. I read about it in a book and went out and tried it since then it has probably saved by butt a few times and sure makes riding more fun.

 

[Rich82GS750TZ]

Wow. That was hard to watch. I still remember motorcycle safety course instructor's explanation of counter-steering essentially this way: Rather than thinking about steering left to go right and vice-versa, when you want to steer right, push right with your right hand on the right grip, and vice versa. When standing still, pushing right with your right hand is essentially steering to the left. So I never think about counter-steering, instead, (at speed) when I want to go right, I push right with my right. When I want to go left, I push left with my left. Of course I'm always looking through the turn to where you want to be.

 

[mhobryan]

I really think this vid should be a sticky somewhere on this site....it could very well save a life.....

 

[wacky941]

I had done counter steering to avoid a couple accidents back in '80 and '81, I didn't have a clue what it was, it was just instinctive. I started riding motorcycles riding motocross and there are many things that you do instinctively that carry over to riding street, this was just one of them.
I remember talking to a couple friends of mine about my near misses a couple years later and thats when I was informed what it was. I've always described it as pushing the bar in the direction you want to go and it causes the bike to fall or dive in that direction.
If you think about it, anyone who has been riding for a while already does it and doesn't even realize it. When you are riding at slow speeds you literally steer in the direction you want to go by pulling the bar in that direction but, at higher speeds you're not pulling the bar in that direction instead you're pushing the bar in the direction you want to go. You're doing it instinctively and don't even realize it. The only difference is that in an emergency you're pushing much harder. The problem that no-one is talking about is the second act. Don't forget that once you counter steer to avoid the initial accident, almost immediately you have to do it again in the opposite direction to avoid the curb or another stationary object.

 

[Guest]

It must bae instinctvie. The rider was countersteering until he saw the truck. He apparently then though - incorrectly - about steering. Had he maintained his original line, he would have been fine.

 

[earlfor]

It must bae instinctvie. The rider was countersteering until he saw the truck. He apparently then though - incorrectly - about steering. Had he maintained his original line, he would have been fine.

Yep, it has to be automatic muscle reflex. I was riding for 30 years before there were MSF courses and every rider was self taught. I did fine before I heard of counter steering. Push right to go right and push left to go left. I like things simple. heh Maybe it isn't so much that you go where you look, but more that you go where your push hand is. I can look left and turn right all day long. eh eh

 

[Steve]

Maybe its because during basic Motorcycle Safety courses the speeds aren't usually high enough to practice counter steering, ...

Just out of curiosity, in your opinion, at what speeds do you start counter-steering? :-k

In <my> experience, any time a 2-wheeled vehicle is moving, you use counter-steering to maintain balance and control.

Rather than thinking about steering left to go right and vice-versa, when you want to steer right, push right with your right hand on the right grip, and vice versa.

Yes, it is SO much easier to simply remember "Push right, GO right. Push left, GO left."

.

 

[wacky941]

Wow. That was hard to watch. I still remember motorcycle safety course instructor's explanation of counter-steering essentially this way: Rather than thinking about steering left to go right and vice-versa, when you want to steer right, push right with your right hand on the right grip, and vice versa. When standing still, pushing right with your right hand is essentially steering to the left. So I never think about counter-steering, instead, (at speed) when I want to go right, I push right with my right. When I want to go left, I push left with my left. Of course I'm always looking through the turn to where you want to be.

It has to be an instinctive reaction because if you have to think about what you need to do, it's too late, you're done.
The guy in the video panicked and tried to think it through and you could see the result. It was obvious he was fighting between instinct and thought.

 

[earlfor]

Just out of curiosity, in your opinion, at what speeds do you start counter-steering? :-k

In <my> experience, any time a 2-wheeled vehicle is moving, you use counter-steering to maintain balance and control.




Yes, it is SO much easier to simply remember "Push right, GO right. Push left, GO left."

.

I think its more a matter of lean than speed. If you're going slow enough that gyroscopic precession is not in effect and the bike stays perpendicular to the road, no counter steering. As soon as any lean is introduced, counter steering is necessary. Or not. LOL

 

[Steve]

Any way you look at it, any time the bike is moving, you need to keep the center of gravity over the center of support. It is actually rather difficult to move the center of gravity, so making adjustments to the center of support is easier. The way to move the center of support is to turn the front wheel. By turning the wheel to the left, your center of support is now to the left of the center of gravity, and the bike will fall to the right. By carefully re-adjusting the center of support, you can either prevent the fall to keep the bike upright and going straight, or you can control the fall and call it a "lean", which will result in a change of direction.

An easier way to visualize this is to use a broom or a baseball bat. Turn the broom or bat upside down and balance it on your hand. If you move your hand to the left, the broom (bat) will fall to the right. Chase it with your hand, you can get it balanced again. This is actually harder than balancing your bike, because the bike will only fall left or right, the broom (bat) can fall forward and back, as well.

Maintaining this balance on the bike will work at ANY speed, as long as there are only two points of support, the tires. Gyroscopic precession might help with stability when at speed, but you still need to keep the support under the CG.

.

 

[Guest]

I never really thought about it till I watched the video. Yesterday, while out riding, I "practiced" counter-steering, and counter-steering and leaning. I came away with, hey, I've been doing this all along.

 

[earlfor]

I never really thought about it till I watched the video. Yesterday, while out riding, I "practiced" counter-steering, and counter-steering and leaning. I came away with, hey, I've been doing this all along.

Yep, it isn't possible to ride anything with two wheels without counter steering. heh

 

[earlfor]

Yep, it isn't possible to ride anything with two wheels without counter steering. heh

Everyone adjusts to counter steering in learning to ride without thinking about it. I watched a video a few years ago of a guy that with the addition of some linkage to the handle bars on a bicycle, reversed the steering. When the bars were turned left, the front wheel turned right. At first try, he couldn't ride it, but after a little practice, it became habit to control and he could ride it perfectly. It's something like the tiller on sailboat. Push the tiller right and the bow goes left. I never had a problem with that. Something I found difficult was coasting down a ramp or hill backwards on a bicycle. lol Or, try crossing your arms and putting left hand on right grip and right hand on left grip. That will tell you exactly how counter steering works. heh

 

[Brendan W]

To find the transition speed take the bike up in 5mph jumps and you'll see soon enough.
I can tell you it doesn't work at parking speeds but at 20mph it definitely does and probably a good bit less.
In any potential collision scenario I would say you are into the counter steer regime.
What's the bet a lot of guys in those types of situations knew all about counter steer.
I reckon that if you are not practicing for that situation at least once every ride you will not be current enough to react instinctively and even then.................

 

[Guest]

Everyone adjusts to counter steering in learning to ride without thinking about it. I watched a video a few years ago of a guy that with the addition of some linkage to the handle bars on a bicycle, reversed the steering. When the bars were turned left, the front wheel turned right. At first try, he couldn't ride it, but after a little practice, it became habit to control and he could ride it perfectly. It's something like the tiller on sailboat. Push the tiller right and the bow goes left. I never had a problem with that. Something I found difficult was coasting down a ramp or hill backwards on a bicycle. lol Or, try crossing your arms and putting left hand on right grip and right hand on left grip. That will tell you exactly how counter steering works. heh

Sounds like you came home with lots of bumps, scrapes, and bruises as a kid.

 

[TxGSrider]

I believe in the book "Total Control" by Lee Parks he recommends deliberately pushing only instead of pushing with one hand and pulling with the other (like allot of people do without realizing it).

 

[Guest]

It must bae instinctvie. The rider was countersteering until he saw the truck.

Exactly. As soon as he saw the truck, he panicked and locked the rear brake, then it was all over.
You can see this at regular speed, but it is very easy to see this if you slow the video down to .25 speed.

This had absolutely nothing to do with countersteering.

 

[Guest]

After slowing the clip at ..25 x normal speed, the rear jerking does look exactly like the rear beginning to slide out.

He responded like an inexperienced rider not only in over-braking, but it setting lines through blind corners that push him to near to on-coming traffic. Not knowing about counterr-steering wasn't his problem. It was riding too aggressively for his skill level.

 

[Guest]

After slowing the clip at ..25 x normal speed, the rear jerking does look exactly like the rear beginning to slide out.

He responded like an inexperienced rider not only in over-braking, but it setting lines through blind corners that push him to near to on-coming traffic. Not knowing about counterr-steering wasn't his problem. It was riding too aggressively for his skill level.

Yup.