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Smoking from cold

  • Thread starter Thread starter gray3287
  • Start date Start date
G

gray3287

Guest
HI folks

i have just plucked up the courage to take the cylinder head off my 81 gs1000e as it smokes like a B*****d after a cold start from one of the two L/H cylinders but clears after about a minute (i am suspecting valve guides or seals) if it is the valve guides will i need to ream out the old ones like it says in the manual or is it a case of tap em out, also i believe there are some gaskets somewhere that perish or fail that cause similar symptoms to this. any help from you guys would go down a storm
thanks a lot
Graham
 
If you need new guides let a engine shop do it for you, you can crack the head if you get it wrong., I hope it's just valve seals. :D
 
cold and smoky

cold and smoky

sounds like we may be in the same boat.
ive just bought the gasket set but thats all
have you found out if its seals or guides (how can you tell which)

i did replace seals about 13 years ago but she has been of road for 10yrs
may be they are britle and cracked

heres hopping you know some answers

vic
 
Re: cold and smoky

Re: cold and smoky

turkish said:
sounds like we may be in the same boat.
ive just bought the gasket set but thats all
have you found out if its seals or guides (how can you tell which)

i did replace seals about 13 years ago but she has been of road for 10yrs
may be they are britle and cracked

heres hopping you know some answers

vic
Click to expand...

You can tell if the guides are worn by measuring the clearance between the valve stem and guide after you have taken off the valve springs, there should be negligible movement of the valve possible. What is your mileage?

I would do a compression test, both wet and dry to get an idea of the situation.

And YAY! for another 1000S on the road!!!! :D
 
With the valve springs off the valve, hold your finger over the hole adn pull the valve out about an inch. It should be pulled back in by the vacuum. IF it does not bounce back into the head measure the inside diameter of the guide at three places, and measure the valve at roughly the same points. Refer to the manual for valve guide clearance and see what you have.
 
GS 1000E smoking from cold

GS 1000E smoking from cold

Hi folks,
thanks for the replies i got the head off and found the offending seals as they had visibly degraded as they were very brittle the valves were in a right state so they needed considerable de-coking and the valve seats re lapping, all seems well but i noticed there were no shims at all on the followers is this normal or am i reaching the absolute limits of wear?
 
Re: GS 1000E smoking from cold

Re: GS 1000E smoking from cold

gray3287 said:
Hi folks,
thanks for the replies i got the head off and found the offending seals as they had visibly degraded as they were very brittle the valves were in a right state so they needed considerable de-coking and the valve seats re lapping, all seems well but i noticed there were no shims at all on the followers is this normal or am i reaching the absolute limits of wear?
Click to expand...
Do you have a picture that you can post to everyone?
 
All 2 valve motors have valve shims between the cam and the valve spring bucket assembly. Suzuki does not recommend lapping the valves in their manuals, there have been plenty of threads on this forum about whether to do it or not. If you found the problem and cleaned the coke off the valves I would just clean the faces lightly and leave well enough alone.
 
Not this one!!! apart from the smoking and 37000 miles on the clock it ran ok however i dont dispute that it requires shims there just arent any! how do they stay in place do you just sit them on top of the buckets or do they sit under the bucket against the spring top?
 
gray3287 said:
Not this one!!! apart from the smoking and 37000 miles on the clock it ran ok however i dont dispute that it requires shims there just arent any! how do they stay in place do you just sit them on top of the buckets or do they sit under the bucket against the spring top?
Click to expand...

hpim0416sm5rx.jpg


The round shims on the left go in the buckets, there is a slot in them to remove them.
Normally they go on top of the bucket so directly under the cam lobe, with tuned engines sometimes they are converted to 'shim under bucket'.
 
smoking cold

smoking cold

where getting some great help here graham (did you do a comp test)
missing shims? bizzare

funny robin should say about compression test. a friend did it today
he thought ok

dry No 1 8kg. No2 8kg. No3 7.5kg. No4 7.5kg
wet No1 8kg. No2 9kg. No3 8kg. No4 8kg

looking in manual says 7kg service limit so what do you think

like the ideas on testing valve guide wear.not sure about measuring internal of guide.only got a vernier gauge .how is it done then duaneage[/url]
 
Valve guides are measured with an inside gauge. The gauge is very small, the two heads are pressed in and locked. When the gauge is inserted into the guide the lock is released and locked again. Remove the gauge and measure with calipers.

If you don't get vacuum or have any doubts take it to a machine shop along with your manual and have them check the guides for you. It is too much work to ignore when you have the head in your hands. You did have smoke and oil was getting in through the guides, that is reason enough to make sure before you spend two days reassembling it.

My father is a retired machinist, last of a dying breed in this country. He has a great assortment of Starret gauges and micrometers. I measuer everything when I have an engine apart, be it a Suzuki or an old Pontiac.
 
Hi Guys

Thanks for all your help, on further investigation i found the offending shims right where they should be, recessed into the bucket (i thought it was highly unusual) my next question is once reassembled and the cam shafts in place it seems to me to be a right ball ache setting the clearences as the cam shaft has to come off numerous times is there a quicker way of doing this
infinite thanks to you all
Graham
 
Hi Guys

Thanks for all your help, on further investigation i found the offending shims right where they should be, recessed into the bucket (i thought it was highly unusual) my next question is once reassembled and the cam shafts in place it seems to me to be a right ball ache setting the clearences as the cam shaft has to come off numerous times is there a quicker way of doing this
infinite thanks to you all
Graham
 
Yes setting the clearances is a ball ache but on the positive side your looking at an indestructable system. The adjust won't move no matter how hard you beat on it.

Look in the manual for the procedure to measure the gaps. If you need shims sometimes you can move a shim from a wide location to a narrow one. Shim sets from motors are on eBay for 20 dollars now and then. Individual shims are 7-10 dollars at the dealer and that sucks. Some deales will let you excjange a shim, but not the 2.65 shims because they usually have dozens of them.

Get it together and install the cams before installing on the engine. Measure what you have and then worry about shims if you need them. You could also try the Parts Wanted section and offer to wash someone's bike if they give you the shim you need.
 
glad you found your shims gary

so know about valve guides

what do you think about my comp stats

dry No 1 8kg. No2 8kg. No3 7.5kg. No4 7.5kg
wet No1 8kg. No2 9kg. No3 8kg. No4 8kg

do i even need to take barrel of

vic

 
If you have compression that even and high I would leave it alone. Wait for a real problem to come along before opening her up. You'll be waking a sleeping dog and end up breaking something or spending a lot of money for little greater benefit by tearing it apart.
 
OMG! It must take forever to adjust a valve that way.

You need to get a valve adjusting tool (some try to make their own). The tool allows you to push the shim bucket down far enough to get the shim out with a tweezers. I bought mine at a local Suzuki dealer. Motion Pro is the manufacturer. I tried making my own - buy the tool.
 
OMG! It must take forever to adjust a valve that way.



No, actually it took me about 30 minutes.

Once I identified what i had and what I needed I buttoned her back up and road for a week while I gathered my shims.

Record what the tolerances are and the shim number on ech valve. This is helpful info to have after 15000 miles and you check them again.
 
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