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Some clarification please...starter clutch.

  • Thread starter Thread starter spyug
  • Start date Start date
S

spyug

Guest
I started working on my GS550 project and attempted to fire up. The starter spins but the crank doesn't engage. I'm suspecting the starter clutch.

I've done all the reading on starter clutch issuses and I'm wondering if that is indeed my problem....but I'm confused.

I'm not able to check the action with the cover off as the idler gear shaft is attached to the cover itself. With the cover off on the right side I see no motion but I hear the starter motor spinning freely.

From my reading I understand that the gear on the crank is supposed to turn freely clockwise but locks up when turned anti-clockwise. Mine does that exactly and everything else looks good. So on the face of it things look correct.

Now I'm really not looking forward to pulling off this flywheel so before I start in on that could anyone explain exactly how this clutch works as I don't have an understanding of it and it might help me figure out whats happening.

As always your assistance is appreciated .

Cheers,
spyug
 
You have it right about the gear spinning only one way. Not sure what to suggest other than maybe seeing if you can turn the engine using the clutch gear, to see if it will hold.
 
Well I found out this morning that the shaft holding the idler gear is not attached to the case as I had thought so I tried it with the cover off. What happens is the crankshaft gear spins clockwise and doesn't at any point lockup. So does this tell me the clutch mechanism is pooched? In normal operation does the gear spin clockwise to a point then lock up to turn the crank? is that how it operates?

Again, I'm not clear on how this starter clutch gizmo is supposed to work so I don't really follow what I'm seeing. I don't see any broken screws or bits in the bottom of the case and everything seems tight with no grinding or rattling.

I'd like to understand this more before I try and pull the flywheel.

All comments appreciated.

cheers all,
spyug
 
There are 3 barrel shaped bearings that are spring loaded in the starter clutch . If the springs are shot or weak then the bearings wont flop out and grasp the crankshaft. Youll need to pull the rotor and take the starter clutch off to inspect. Loose bolts holding the clutch to the back of the rotor are also a problem, so do the locktite on them when you reinstall them.
 
The starter clutch gear should turn one way, but not the other. I can't remember which way it turns but just make sure it turns one way only.
 
ED the starter clutch will not spin on its own freely..It is bolted to the rotor. The ball bearings will flop out and grasp the crank when the button is pushed. Once the bike starts, the centrifigal force of the crank speed pulls the bearings back in and disengage them from the crank. Its exactly like the starter bendix acts on a car or truck.
 
chuck hahn said:
ED the starter clutch will not spin on its own freely..It is bolted to the rotor. The ball bearings will flop out and grasp the crank when the button is pushed. Once the bike starts, the centrifigal force of the crank speed pulls the bearings back in and disengage them from the crank. Its exactly like the starter bendix acts on a car or truck.
Click to expand...


Chuck,
The gear will free-spin in one direction, but not the other. Next time you have your stator cover removed try it for yourself.
 
I am not recalling any gear in my 77 750 when i redid the starter clutch..just the clutch assembly and the connector gear between the clutch and starter.. is the 550 and 750s different?
 
Thanks guys. So now I guess I'm going to have to pull things apart....drat. I've been trying to do that since writing this first thing this morning but can't yet budge that center bolt. I've been using heat from my Mapp gas rig and a 4' torque bar but no joy yet.

One question though before I break something. That center bolt is not Left Hand Threaded is it? I don't recall reading anything to indicate that it is and I can't see anything on the nut itself but a buddy just mentioned that it may be. Just wanted to verify.

I also wondered if anyone had used a "rattle"gun on these bolts?

I can see this is going to be a bitch.

Thanks again fellas.

spyug
 
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I believe its just a regular thread. look at the lockwasher and see what direction its designed to prevent the bolt from turning.
If you don't have a puller, some manuals suggest to use the rear tire axle and a dowel pin. Once you get there
 
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Someone a week or so was trying to remove the rotor as well. I dont recall the thread, but it was a lefty loosy / righty tighty as i recall. I think he wound up using a electric or air impact gun..Wish i could remember the thread name!!
 
No, that bolt is a not left-hand thread. It's on with red loctite though...

Get a friend to sit on the bike & engage the rear brake while the bike's in 5th gear.

Heat the bolt head and "step" on that 4' breaker bar with your body weight & hopefully it will break free.

Next "bitch" is tightening that puppy up to spec.

When my starter clutch did the same thing, it wasn't "pressed" on the shaft tight enough; in fact, I was able to almost unthread that bolt by hand!

Good luck, don't drop the bike tryig to get that bolt off by yourself.
 
Thanks fellas. The bolt on mine is not like that one. Its one of the "shouldered" bolts where the head flairs out to the size of a washer so you can't tell much from it.

I think I'll try heat again and perhaps use the airwrench. I'm fearfull of snapping the bolt so I'm not so keen on using the breaker bar. I want to go slow on it.

My mechanic buddy is not available today so I might just wait for him as it seems everytime I try and sort a tough problem like this I end up making it worse. I don't want the "boss" to come back from holidays to find another lump in the garage ( the Kat shifting is not yet addressed).

I'm just hoping that when I do get the nut off I can also get the rotor off with a minimum of issues.

One positive thing about it is that when it does get sorted I'll have learned something new:D.......don't buy another basket case project:cry:.

I'll let you know what happens next.

Thanks all.
Spyug
 
Thanks. That is interesting and informative. Now I think I understand what's going on.

Now to try and sort it.

cheers,
Spyug
 
spyug said:
Well I found out this morning that the shaft holding the idler gear is not attached to the case as I had thought so I tried it with the cover off. What happens is the crankshaft gear spins clockwise and doesn't at any point lockup. So does this tell me the clutch mechanism is pooched? In normal operation does the gear spin clockwise to a point then lock up to turn the crank? is that how it operates?


cheers all,
spyug
Click to expand...
Facing left side of bike with stator cover off, starter motor turns counterclockwise,which turns idler gear clockwise,which then turns rotor gear counterclockwise ( if starter clutch works). Make sure your starter motor is going right way- it's possible starter was rebuilt with brushes biased in wrong direction.
 
Facing left side of bike with stator cover off, starter motor turns counterclockwise,which turns idler gear clockwise,which then turns rotor gear counterclockwise ( if starter clutch works). Make sure your starter motor is going right way- it's possible starter was rebuilt with brushes biased in wrong direction.
Click to expand...

Yikes I never thought of something like that . There is a vid of the bike running last fall and it seemed fine but the more I think of it the starter turns clockwise. Could it be something like that I wonder?

Man that's making me think. That would make some degree of sense wouldn't it if the crank gear is turning counterclockwise it is going to engage.

Is there anyway a starter can start running in reverse of how its supposed to if it was not rebuilt?

Man my head is spinning now. Thanks for making me look forward to a sleepless night.

Cheers,
spyug
 
Quickest and easyest test you could do is put it in top gear and turn the tire backwards. It will turn the starter if the clutch is good and you'll hear it.

If your wondering about the starter going in the wrong direction, could it be that your battery is in backwards or its new and the + and - are on the opposite side of the old battery? Just another thought.

Engine and starter rotate in the same direction.
No i don't believe there is any way for a starter to simply reverse direction unless the brush plate inside spun somehow but it would be noticeable and intermittent.

Another quick test of the clutch would be to remove the pin on the idler gear and take the gear out. Then try to move the clutch gear on the crankshaft.

It should spin clockwise and lock counterclockwise.
 
Another quick test of the clutch would be to remove the pin on the idler gear and take the gear out. Then try to move the clutch gear on the crankshaft.

It should spin clockwise and lock counterclockwise.
Click to expand...

That is exactly what it does do but when the starter motor is engaged it spins it continually clockwise. Should it not at some point lock and turn the crank?

This is what confuses the hell out of me. it seems that everything is working as it should but yet it does not engage the crankshaft.

I'm more confused than ever.

Spyug
 
Thanks for that reference. I don't have access to an oxy rig so my mapp gas will need to do. I can get cherry with that I know. So if I can get in the right mental state today, I may try it again tonight and with the rattle gun rather than the torque bar.

At this point, I need to see the state of that clutch mechanism to understand how it does what its supposed to do. For some reason, despite the information provided, I can't see it in my minds eye.

Keep your fingers crossed for me.

Cheers all,
Spyug
 
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