Something is draining my Battery and maybe is it not charging?

[Gs1000g]

Hey guys, Over the summer I had some charging issues on the bike on the cross country trip we took. The bike first started acting up in Charleston S.C. took the battery to O'Reillys charged the battery and we went about our day. Fast forward 3 days now we are in Panama City Beach Florida once again had an issue took and had the battery charged, they "checked" the charging system and it was good. Mind you im 1400 miles away from home in 95* weather, not my most idea place to work on the bike. So we finally get back home and i find that the wires from the stator/rectifier are melted. I re-soldered the wires back together The three wires from the stator wired to the rectifier, with the red wire from the rectifier going to the bike harness. and rectifier Ground to a screw on a battery box.
Fast forward to now I want to burn the bike. The old battery quit holding a charge during the winter, it was only 8 months old. I bought a new battery 1/31/2016 charge it and install it Monday 2/1/16. I go out to start the bike today 2/2/16 16:00 and just by turning on the ignition I can tell the battery is low by how dim the lights are. I took the tank and side covers off and checked all my connections, they are still together and the heat shrink is in place. I took the rectifier off cleaned the base, hooked the rectifier ground to the base plate of the rectifier then ran a dedicated 10G wire from the ground base to the negative side of the battery cable. The battery is now charged, I've read and re-read the stator papers so here are my quick test results.
1. Key off 14.36V
2. key on 11.92v
3. Idle 11-1300rpm 13.83v
4. 2500rpms 12.6v
5. 5k rpm 12.69v These were taken at the positive battery terminal and grounded to negative cable on battery

I just want to get the bike back to where i can ride it and it doesn't have to be on a charger all night and I don't have this in the back of my mind as I ride

 

[Gs1000g]

Ask I just realized after posting this if I hit my high beams my left front running light shuts off don't know if this is related or not

 

[Guest]

I know that I am relatively new here (been here a while, just not posted), but I'll take a stab at a few things that jump out at me:

... I've read and re-read the stator papers so here are my quick test results.
1. Key off 14.36V
2. key on 11.92v
3. Idle 11-1300rpm 13.83v
4. 2500rpms 12.6v
5. 5k rpm 12.69v These were taken at the positive battery terminal and grounded to negative cable on battery

1. The only way you are going to get a starting voltage that high is if you had JUST removed a charger. Either let the bike sit for a few hours or turn the key ON for 20-30 seconds, turn it OFF for about half an hour and check again.
2. Your battery should not go below 12 volts with the key ON, especially since you started at over 14 volts. You have a bad battery.
3. 13.8 at idle is pretty good.
4. Voltage going down when the engine speeds up is not good. Could be a bad ground from the regulator to the bike.
5. That is virtually the same as your 2500 RPM voltage. Still not good, still suspect a bad ground. Could be a bad regulator, too.

There has been a lot of talk here about a regulator from Polaris. This would be a good time to invest in one. While you are waiting for it, verify that your stator is still good by getting AC voltage readings from your stator wires. Too bad you have to un-solder them to get those readings. That is why I refuse to solder them on my bikes.

 

[tom203]

" I just want to get the bike back to where i can ride it and it doesn't have to be on a charger all night and I don't have this in the back of my mind as I ride"

you might have read the stator papers, but sounds like you missed some things. You got to correct things to enjoy happy motoring. Read this...

http://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...-Charging-System-Health&p=1138531#post1138531

I'd guess that your r/r has smoked the stator. But test everything- don't guess or let others guess for you.

 

[Gs1000g]

phydeauzmutt
1. The battery was low when I got home so I put it on the charger why I fixed the wiring.
2. The battery is literally 2 days old, not saying it isn't bad but the odds of that are slim and none
3. I cleaned the bottom of the rectifier with a wire wheel to ensure a good connection and then put a 10G wire from the bolt on the rectifier to the negative of the battery,
4. This is what worries me,
5. This is what worries me

 

[Gs1000g]

 

[Gs1000g]

 

[Datsa Noydb]

The R/R does not really 'ground' through its case, so it doesn't really matter how clean that mount is. The 'ground' it NEEDS to see is the one that gets current back through the stator and battery. Other guys here are better at the 'sparky' things than I am, but I have learned that it's the WIRES that matter, not the mount, in this case.

 

[Gs1000g]

I ran a 10g from the r/r bolt to to the negative on the battery, should I move this elsewhere? Also the r/r ground is connected to this also

 

[posplayr]

I know that I am relatively new here (been here a while, just not posted), but I'll take a stab at a few things that jump out at me:


1. The only way you are going to get a starting voltage that high is if you had JUST removed a charger. Either let the bike sit for a few hours or turn the key ON for 20-30 seconds, turn it OFF for about half an hour and check again.
2. Your battery should not go below 12 volts with the key ON, especially since you started at over 14 volts. You have a bad battery.
3. 13.8 at idle is pretty good.
4. Voltage going down when the engine speeds up is not good. Could be a bad ground from the regulator to the bike.
5. That is virtually the same as your 2500 RPM voltage. Still not good, still suspect a bad ground. Could be a bad regulator, too.

There has been a lot of talk here about a regulator from Polaris. This would be a good time to invest in one. While you are waiting for it, verify that your stator is still good by getting AC voltage readings from your stator wires. Too bad you have to un-solder them to get those readings. That is why I refuse to solder them on my bikes.

Glad you have been reading about the electrical systems. Diagnose can be a bit tricky. Here is what I see.

1.) Yes battery is high and you were apparently correct it just came off of a charger. So you should expect some "surface" charge (i.e. excess charge leading to a higher battery that you can pull off quickly with a load).

2.)The voltage drop down to 11.92 is at odds with teh freshly charged battery, but that could be because of extra loads on the bike. Generally it should stay at 12.0V or above. However I don't have an immediate concern for this at the moment.

3.) If that is a real number it says that the system can charge and charges well.

4.,5.) Dropping voltage suggests bad connections for sure; When it is this bad I suspect the positive size as much as grounds.

I would move to revised Phase A testing that measures the voltage drops between the R/R and the battery. Put one lead at the battery terminal and the other lead as close to the R/R as you can stab. Rev the bike up to 500 and measure the voltage drops. They are probably over 1V.

That being the assumption, OP needs to clean all connections between the battery and the R/r and that means starting with the fuse box. Cleaning means chemical cleaning.

Given how bad it is it will need Naval jelly to get into the crimps.
I would also use Flux to be able to flow solder into those crimps.

Those Pictures of heat shrunk connections doesn't do much to convince me it is not a green mess inside.

 

[posplayr]

I ran a 10g from the r/r bolt to to the negative on the battery, should I move this elsewhere? Also the r/r ground is connected to this also

The case is not a ground but the R/R(-) is. Did you run the R/R(-) to the same case bolt? Look up Single Point Ground (SPG). I suspect you have but look again.
There needs to be a direct path from the SPG to R/R(-), Battery and Frame ground.

My guess is you did not really clean the connections except with a wire brush which does nothing for crimps and your case would seem to be a prime example.

That old R/R is prettier now, but you did nothing to improve the electrical by polishing the oxidation from the case. It might flow heat a bit better, so that is worth cleaning it.

 

[Gs1000g]

Glad you have been reading about the electrical systems. Diagnose can be a bit tricky. Here is what I see.

1.) Yes battery is high and you were apparently correct it just came off of a charger. So you should expect some "surface" charge (i.e. excess charge leading to a higher battery that you can pull off quickly with a load).

2.)The voltage drop down to 11.92 is at odds with teh freshly charged battery, but that could be because of extra loads on the bike. Generally it should stay at 12.0V or above. However I don't have an immediate concern for this at the moment.

3.) If that is a real number it says that the system can charge and charges well.

4.,5.) Dropping voltage suggests bad connections for sure; When it is this bad I suspect the positive size as much as grounds.

I would move to revised Phase A testing that measures the voltage drops between the R/R and the battery. Put one lead at the battery terminal and the other lead as close to the R/R as you can stab. Rev the bike up to 500 and measure the voltage drops. They are probably over 1V.

That being the assumption, OP needs to clean all connections between the battery and the R/r and that means starting with the fuse box. Cleaning means chemical cleaning.

Given how bad it is it will need Naval jelly to get into the crimps.
I would also use Flux to be able to flow solder into those crimps.

Those Pictures of heat shrunk connections doesn't do much to convince me it is not a green mess inside.

Those heat shrink and new connectors are new, they have been on the bike for 4-5 months. I used flux, and solder, the fuse box is cleaned also I used battery terminal cleaner and dialectic grease on connections. I will start replacing all wires with larger gauge and new connectors and will report back, I just wanted to get it verified that the stater or the r/r still seem viable. I will check the r/r/ leg voltage drops tonight, I just go so frustrated I couldn't deal with it for any longer. Thanks posplayer I will keep you updated on progress

 

[posplayr]

Those heat shrink and new connectors are new, they have been on the bike for 4-5 months. I used flux, and solder, the fuse box is cleaned also I used battery terminal cleaner and dialectic grease on connections. I will start replacing all wires with larger gauge and new connectors and will report back, I just wanted to get it verified that the stater or the r/r still seem viable. I will check the r/r/ leg voltage drops tonight, I just go so frustrated I couldn't deal with it for any longer. Thanks posplayer I will keep you updated on progress

OK sounds like you are doing a good job, but something is eluding you. Measure the voltage drops.
* If there is no voltage drop @ 5K RPM then that means that no current is flowing from the stator and it is bad stator.
* If the voltage drops are high, then it is bad connections preventing the battery voltage from being higher.

Summary of products I use to prepare and maintain electrical, clean and prevent surface corrosion.
Recommended Products for Preparing Electrical Connections

 

[Gs1000g]

posplayer,
how would I check the diodes in R/R to see if it is allowing current through it, I went to do the stator paper checks last night and my brand new battery was hammer dead 11A with key off . I took the volt meter switched it to the 10AMP and disconnected the positive battery terminal then checked to see if there was any current draw, the meter registered 0 flow but I don't buy it because the new battery was hammer dead. I disconnected the battery and put it on a 2A charger overnight to assess today when I get home.

 

[tom203]

From basscliff's....

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/storagecliff/images/electrical_odd-n-ends.html#A22

ignore the stuff about the sense wire.
Note that this just tests the rectifier diodes which might be your problem,

 

[Gs1000g]

I did the diode check with the ohm meter and it gave me a -356 on all three legs switched the probes and got a 1 on the far left side? is this -0.356V or what? Also i checked to see if voltage at the r/r With no power turned on but battery hooked up and the meter is reading 13V on all three r/r stator connections should current be flowing through this? It would be going directly to the stator and bypass the headlight switch, could this be my short as in a faulty r/r?

 

[posplayr]

I did the diode check with the ohm meter and it gave me a -356 on all three legs switched the probes and got a 1 on the far left side? is this -0.356V or what?

FWIW, a diode tests is to determine whether or not a blocking diode is working or not. That means it is either open or shorted depending on polarity. Anything else and it is bad.

A diode tester normally puts a voltage across the leads and so your meter measures the voltage drop across a unit under test (UUT). for a forward biased diode that is typically in the 0.5-1.1V range with an associated buzz. If it is reverse biased, then the meter should indicate open.

You can look at how your meter indicates the diode tests results; here is an example for FLUKE.

http://en-us.fluke.com/training/tra...o-test-diodes-using-a-digital-multimeter.html

anything else is BROKE.

I usually do not recommend anybody to do this test, because if you need help you probably need too much help in order to interpret the results in the first place. If you know what you are doing, then there is no reason to even ask about the test results.

Also i checked to see if voltage at the r/r With no power turned on but battery hooked up and the meter is reading 13V on all three r/r stator connections should current be flowing through this? It would be going directly to the stator and bypass the headlight switch, could this be my short as in a faulty r/r?

If you don't know what to expect from a test, why are you doing it?

I believe I gave you an educated guess about how to proceed with diagnosing the system. I know what you should expect to see from these tests.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...aybe-is-it-not-charging&p=2263442#post2263442

 

[Gs1000g]

ok pos,
I finally made it where the bike would run and went through the stator papers here are my numbers as follows
With new SPG, new wire and new connectors at every junction with soldering and crimping.
The positive lead voltage drop was 0.17
The negative lead voltage drop was 0.02
PHASE B
First ohm test results from legs are
1.2 per leg
1.2 per leg
1.3 per leg
Second test was OL
Third test with the AC Voltage on each leg i got
6.5 ACv
12 ACv
1.9 ACv
Given this information I need a stator? could this also be the reason my battery keeps draining?
Sounds like a new stator and r/r will be on their way this week.

 

[gearhead13]

ok pos,
I finally made it where the bike would run and went through the stator papers here are my numbers as follows
With new SPG, new wire and new connectors at every junction with soldering and crimping.
The positive lead voltage drop was 0.17
The negative lead voltage drop was 0.02
PHASE B
First ohm test results from legs are
1.2 per leg
1.2 per leg
1.3 per leg
Second test was OL
Third test with the AC Voltage on each leg i got
6.5 ACv
12 ACv
1.9 ACv
Given this information I need a stator? could this also be the reason my battery keeps draining?
Sounds like a new stator and r/r will be on their way this week.

What rpm was your ACv test done at? They should be even voltage.

 

[Gs1000g]

What rpm was your ACv test done at? They should be even voltage.

4500-5000k I just used my throttle lock, it is quite handy for these test as my wife is less than enthused to stand there and hold the throttle