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spark plugs - are they telling me anything ?

  • Thread starter Thread starter GateKeeper
  • Start date Start date
Hey GK. I had the same issue with my bike before the rebuild.

It was like the bike was dying. Power loss and stalling at red lights.

New plugs and caps took care of it for me. I have the original coils and wires.
 
Thanks GT

I have installed new plugs, and trimmed each lead wire, and put the caps back on, and added a bit of di-electric grease to each as well.

I ordered new caps, but no one has the correct ones, mine are long like 4 inches or so all the ones I kept getting are short ones 2 inch or so....so I had to keep the old caps...

mine just wont hold idle, she just goes lower and lower, and gets below 1000 and craps out, like she just won't stay at idle, even on say a downhill grade and in first gear, I get a feeling as if it will konk out at any time.....and it almost happens....

.
 
yup.....and this is how they compare to what my original ones look like.....

P1060379.jpg


P1060378.jpg





I even got them replaced with XD05F and VD05F


all are short......they don't have the long ones....


.
 
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Dang it. Can't go with the long straight caps? Too short?

I know you've thought through this. There's got to be a solution though. Hmmm...
 
They (Z1 Enterprises) has nothing to match the OEM caps, all they have is the little short ones, and the short ones don't work, as they are short.....

somehow I don't think it's the caps, but can't rule them out

I am still digging and researching....
 
How do they not fit? Is there not enough clearance past the valve cover?

NGK even has the XB05FP (or XD05FP) listed as the replacement parts for your model. I know they are shorter than the stock caps off my 650, but they worked for me. The difference between XD and XB is the D angle is 120* while the B angle is 102*, and one is 14mm and the other 12mm.

Have you thought about going for a straight cover like an SD05?

I did a little sleuthing. Your part number listed on Boulevard via google reveals they are used on the VX800 as well:

Here is an EBay listing of something that looks like your stockers:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Suzuki-VX800-VS800-Spark-Plug-Cap-33510-11410-/190622639316

For future reference, here is a link to the NGK codes:

http://www.sparkplugs.co.uk/pages/technical/ngk-plug-cap-code.htm
 
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somehow I don't think it's the caps, but can't rule them out
Click to expand...

I don't thinks so either. They do go bad, however, as resistance can build up over time but in my experience, they either work or don't. When i got the first 550, it wouldn't fire on two cylinders and I thought it was a coil issue but my pro wrench suggested it would be the caps and he was right.

I was thinking of changing mine too as my spark is ok but could be better.

Can you measure how long the stock ones are and I can compare it with what I got for replacement.

Jeez these bikes are a bugger aren't they.

Spyug
 
So had a talk with Spyug and somehow the conversation turned to jets and that this might be the cause of the issues I am having, so if the jets are stock, it should have the following

117.5 for the Main
37.5 for the Pilot

now the only thing is I do have a Yosh 4-1 pipe on the bike

and if the jets are stock then it is wrong right off the bat.....

since I don't know what is in the carbs, I neglected to check and write down what is in them, I now have no choice but to pull them apart and check.

worse part is, I cannot find any jets locally in stock and I would like to go up by one or 2 jets sizes over stock on both, I have to order them in and won't get any until a bare minimum of Thursday give or take, and not knowing what I need, looks like I am in for about 80 bucks worth of jets 5 bucks each....yikes....

still going to try tomorrow to source some, but I doubt anyone close will have them, our shops really suck most times.....

Well time to go and rip apart the carbs and see what I have....


ohhhh and I don't even know where the needle is sitting at......


I really dropped the ball on this one........

.
 
Wait wait wait.
First, all you have is a pipe, right? You should only need to go up 1 on the pilot jets, and 1 or 2 on the mains. The needles you can shim with 3mm stainless steel washers.
Z1 Enterprises sells those jets for ~$1.75 each IIRC. That would be 12 jets, for a total of $21 plus shipping, say $30. The washers you can get at your local Ace hardware for around $2.
Before you do any of that, however, ask someone like rapidray, Nessism or The Cafe Kid.
All you have is a pipe, which sounds better (to some). In order to make more drastic changes, you really need pods as well, since the air/fuel flow is an end-to-end thing. You have opened it up at one end, but not the other. So yeah, I can see upping the mains, but you may only need to adjust the pilot air screw out a turn or two more, rather than replacing those jets as well.
Measure twice, cut once.
 
Well, I bit the bullet and pulled the carbs out, bloody hell, what a pain in the arse...took over an hour, and what a mess, I will be surprised if my boots or air box or something is not messed up now....that is for sure, what a struggle, and I know it's going to be a pain to get them back in....

And all this work for nothing..............................................

my jets seem to be correct, seems it either came this way and or the PO knew what he was doing, or the factory did, I don't know, but I have 120 main jets and 40 pilot jets, everything is as clean as it can be, well as clean as it was when I put the things in....

Going to double check the floats to make sure I set them correctly, but honestly I don't know what the problem is now, and this was a real time waster....ohhh well

here is what it all looks like

the tank was drained and removed

P1090952.jpg


carbs are out

P1090955.jpg


P1090956.jpg




made a mess of the bar, have to repaint now...

P1090960.jpg



Jets are 120 on the left and 40 on the right....check all but one of the carbs, and they are all the same.....yes I will check the last one as well

P1090964.jpg



all looks good

P1090965.jpg


P1090966.jpg





so clean I could use them for a soup bowl and have dinner.....

P1090967.jpg




so now what ?????????????????????????????????????
 
I beg to differ. Rather than for nothing, you collected extremely valuable data. You now know that the pilot jets have been increased by one size and the mains as well. You just saved yourself $$.
Now you need to check your needles to see if they have been shimmed. Once you collect that data you are ready to reassemble.
Let us know and we can move forward.

And why did you drain the tank? The petcock will keep it from leaking. I pull mine all the time with fuel in it.

And remind me never to have soup with you. ;)
 
I very strongly suspect the float levels. Since the carbs are off, please recheck them. Don't reinstall the carbs yet. Give us pics of the way you are measuring the float levels, including the tool you are using, and give us the info for each float.
 
koolaid_kid said:
I beg to differ. Rather than for nothing, you collected extremely valuable data. You now know that the pilot jets have been increased by one size and the mains as well. You just saved yourself $$.
Now you need to check your needles to see if they have been shimmed. Once you collect that data you are ready to reassemble.
Let us know and we can move forward.

And why did you drain the tank? The petcock will keep it from leaking. I pull mine all the time with fuel in it.

And remind me never to have soup with you. ;)
Click to expand...

yes your right I saved a few bucks and have the data that I should have had the first time around....ohhh well

I will check the needles tomorrow, have to get them circlip pliers and then I can move on and see.

I took the fuel out, as it was a full tank and it get really heavy to take off and put back on, so draining it was a 2 minute job and make it lighter, so easier to handle

koolaid_kid said:
I very strongly suspect the float levels. Since the carbs are off, please recheck them. Don't reinstall the carbs yet. Give us pics of the way you are measuring the float levels, including the tool you are using, and give us the info for each float.
Click to expand...

float levels were set by using a digital caliper, and no gasket, and not on the hump of the float but on the flat stepped down part, but I will take the measurements again, and pics on how I am doing it, hopefully 2 hands will be enough, I might have to grow a couple more to hold it all and take a pic...LOL

good thing we have dinner bowls, so soup is always good at my place....no worries there.....:D

.
 
When you check the floats, please check them on each side of the float. The metal part can bend and the floats be uneven, causing bad adjustments.
 
Check the floats with the float needle plunger extended not depressed.

Eric
 
koolaid_kid said:
When you check the floats, please check them on each side of the float. The metal part can bend and the floats be uneven, causing bad adjustments.
Click to expand...

It was done this way the first time around....but I will double check again tonight...

7981GS said:
Check the floats with the float needle plunger extended not depressed.

Eric
Click to expand...

yup, full extended, floats were just resting on the float plunger

did I mention gaskets were removed as well


It's not looking like a carb issue, but still have to check the needles and how they are setup, I am thinking if it was jetted correctly they are probably right as well,,,,but one can never assume......

I feel like a dog chasing his tail on this.....and ripping apart all my hard work really has me bummed out.....

maybe now I should go with pods, seems I am having issues, might as well make at even better challenge....



Come on you GS Experts, lets get this resolved.....wish some of you were close by to lend a brother a hand...

:)
 
I call this peeling away the layers of the onion. With an issue such as yours, we have to be methodical in our approach. Step by step wins the game.
This is why I believe it to be a fueling issue: When you come to a stop, fuel sloshes forward, changing the physical level of fuel available to your pilot jets. This changes the air/fuel mixture being sent to your cylinders. I have spoken to a good friend of mine about this before, and he changed the float height in his carbs to accommodate this virtual level change. Once we determine where you are, I will ask him which way he thinks you should go, and we can proceed from there. This is why I am asking you to get excruciating details about where you current are.
 
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