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Sparks every time the key is turned on.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Kitten Tooth
  • Start date Start date
K

Kitten Tooth

Guest
Well, the description says it all. Was having a problem with cylinder 1 not firing or sparking when i hit the button on my 83' GS300L. Found that whenever the key ignition is turned on or off, cylinder 1's plug fires. anybody else ever have this issue? I just checked the wiring coming from the signal generator. Havent checked the wires coming from the CDI box yet. Is something grounding out or is somthing wired improperly?
Im sorry for not having photos up of the bike yet.. Not sure how to post them. maybe i did it right this time :D
View attachment 15357
 
The coil is being cycled by turning the ignition on or off. That means the igniter or the cdi box is not firing the coil.
 
You could be getting a permanent ground on the wire from the ignitor to the coil.
Two likely suspects, the ignitor is putting out a permanent ground to the coil and not only when it needs to spark or the White wire could be grounded to the frame.
To test just pull the plug on the ignitor when the ignition is on, if #1 sparks the ignitor may be faulty. It may be repairable as it could just be a shorted out put transistor.
 
Try jumpering the trigger coil (ignitor) wires to the opposite CDI box leads to see if the sparking while turning the engine moves to the other coil. If so, it is most likely that the CDI box is OK and that you have an ignitor or ignitor wiring problem. Otherwise the issue is with the ignitor.

Strange term "ignitor" the coil or Hall Effect switch doesn't ignite....oh, well lots of terms I don't understand such as those in the sentence, "Do these slacks make me look fat?" My answer was not only wrong but very much so...:eek::(

A two ignition coil system has some duplication which actually makes troubleshooting a bit easier than for a single system. Use the commonality and duplication to help in forming logic.
 
There are some issues. My suzuki is like that song by Johnny Cash where he builds a cadillac out of a million parts. When he gets the title made hes says is a 61',62',63',64' :D my suzuki is a 1982 1983 and 1985 all mixed together. The Wiring harness is 1985 i believe. The CDI box is 1982. the signal generator is 1983. I dont think all these mixed up parts are the issue though. The only thing that the 83' and 85 came with was a kickstand warning light in one of the gauges. The wiring is terrible in the headlight bucket though. Im gonna test things like you guys said. All im hoping is its not the CDI box. I tested it on my 82' GS300L before i sold it and the bike ran great with it plugged in.
 
As a side note, there is no Capacitive Discharge Ignition (CDI) on the GS models. There is an igniter (the external box, mine was bolted to the side of my battery box) and the signal generator (on the right side of the crank behind the ignition cover).
If your igniter is bad, I would see if a Dyna S would fit. It is much cheaper new at less than $150, and should be more reliable. It replaces both the igniter and the signal generator and bolts up where your signal generator currently resides.
 
My Dyna equiped bike will do that sometimes if it stops in a position where a coil has current flowing, only notice it when I turn the key off. The field colapses in the coil and sparko, just like it should.
 
actually had another question. Is there any way to downgrade the ignition system? I wanna do points and condenser instead of electronic ignition because its just easier to deal with. All you need is a battery, points, and a coil. Anyone ever done this?
 
To do this you need a mechanical advance unit that usually sits under the points plate, a plate that takes the points and condensers and a rotor actuator for the points that sits on the end of the crankshaft.

Whether its possible on your GS300 I do not know and the 83 GS300 did not have mechanical advance.
 
i do believe my GS has a mechanical advance. do you guys think points and a coil off of an old twin suzuki would work?
 
IT LIVES!!!!! OMG IT LIVES!!!! seriously.. last thing you do and of course its the easiest thing too. Cleaned the hell out of the contacts that go to the CDI box and now i have spark. put the plug in and only ran it on what was in the bowls. Sounds like i got some valve chatter to deal with but IT RUNS!!! im so happy right now :D
 
Kitten Tooth said:
IT LIVES!!!!! OMG IT LIVES!!!! seriously.. last thing you do and of course its the easiest thing too. Cleaned the hell out of the contacts that go to the CDI box and now i have spark. put the plug in and only ran it on what was in the bowls. Sounds like i got some valve chatter to deal with but IT RUNS!!! im so happy right now :D
Click to expand...

Excellent work! I was just going to try and discourage you from going backwards to points!

Just for info here is a thread by kokar who has built his own Ignitor that should also work on your bike:
http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=182719.
I would check that out as a backup for later!
 
sweet dude! thanks for the link im gonna save it. ill probably build one and test it just for fun. Thanks man.
 
ok lost spark again and found that something inside the CDI box is clicking while the engine cranks. Also found that when you push on the CDI box that you get spark again.. WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING TO ME? im so damned confused. Are there actually moving switches inside the ignition box? Im thinking about cutting into the box.. i have seen others do this. Kinda already started to carefully trim at the mushy back part of the box. Found that its like a silicone type material and it looks like its actually packed into the box. Any ideas on how to open one of these up?
 
Kitten Tooth said:
sweet dude! thanks for the link im gonna save it. ill probably build one and test it just for fun. Thanks man.
Click to expand...

I just need to mention that this is only for bikes which already have a mechanical advance fitted. I think you confirmed earlier that yours has.

ok lost spark again and found that something inside the CDI box is clicking while the engine cranks. Also found that when you push on the CDI box that you get spark again.. WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING TO ME? im so damned confused. Are there actually moving switches inside the ignition box? Im thinking about cutting into the box.. i have seen others do this. Kinda already started to carefully trim at the mushy back part of the box. Found that its like a silicone type material and it looks like its actually packed into the box. Any ideas on how to open one of these up?
Click to expand...

You may have a dry joint on the board and the clicking may be it sparking there, but only guessing. Once you have it open remove the potting compound on the solder side of the PCB and check it out for dry joints, the output transistors are the culprits in some cases.
 
alrighty. ill be slowly melting my way into it tomorrow. On that one guys project thread where he makes his own CDI, do you know if he made the box that he fitted the CDI guts into or did he buy that? I heard they sell project boxes at radio shack. Im thinking im gonna toss the original box and make a nice metal one. and yes, my bike does have a mechanic advance. im going to make extras of my CDI box too.
 
Kitten Tooth said:
alrighty. ill be slowly melting my way into it tomorrow. On that one guys project thread where he makes his own CDI, do you know if he made the box that he fitted the CDI guts into or did he buy that? I heard they sell project boxes at radio shack. Im thinking im gonna toss the original box and make a nice metal one. and yes, my bike does have a mechanic advance. im going to make extras of my CDI box too.
Click to expand...

He built his own box from aluminum. You need a good heat sink for the two output transistors and the easiest is to have a look at his photos, he has all the photos of how to do it in that thread. In actual fact he will send you a PCB free if you are one of the first 6 to ask for one!
dsc06848001.jpg
 
AS already stated these bikes don't have CDI, they have igniters and signal generators. CDI is something found mostly on old two strokes.
 
Kitten Tooth said:
Havent checked the wires coming from the CDI box yet.
Click to expand...

GSexpress said:
That means the igniter or the cdi box is not firing the coil.
Click to expand...

Normk said:
Try jumpering the trigger coil (ignitor) wires to the opposite CDI box leads to see if the sparking while turning the engine moves to the other coil. If so, it is most likely that the CDI box is OK and that you have an ignitor or ignitor wiring problem. Otherwise the issue is with the ignitor.
Click to expand...

Kitten Tooth said:
. The CDI box is 1982. ... All im hoping is its not the CDI box.
Click to expand...
I am detecting a trend here, there is some education necessary.
well1.gif


koolaid_kid said:
As a side note, there is no Capacitive Discharge Ignition (CDI) on the GS models. There is an igniter ...
Click to expand...
Finally, some words of wisdom. :clap: :clap:

Kitten Tooth said:
Cleaned the hell out of the contacts that go to the CDI box and now i have spark.
Click to expand...

Kitten Tooth said:
ok lost spark again and found that something inside the CDI box is clicking while the engine cranks. Also found that when you push on the CDI box that you get spark again...
Click to expand...

Kitten Tooth said:
On that one guys project thread where he makes his own CDI, do you know if he made the box that he fitted the CDI guts into or did he buy that? ... im going to make extras of my CDI box too.
Click to expand...
And yet the trend continues. :oops:

Billy Ricks said:
AS already stated these bikes don't have CDI, they have igniters and signal generators. CDI is something found mostly on old two strokes.
Click to expand...
What we are trying to tell you, Kitten Tooth, is that THERE IS NO "CDI BOX"

Yes, there is a "magic box" in the system, but it only has a few transistors that act as electronic points.
A CDI box will store electricity in a bunch of capacitors, then discharge it when triggered. Get it?? Capacitor Discharge Ignition.
shrug2.gif


.
 
Just got into the habbit of calling it that. Im tearing into the igniter today. i do understand that its not a CDI box, but an igniter. trying not to be misleading in any way but i think you guys know what im talking about. The igniter does "click" on the inside as the engine turns over. When i put pressure on the box by holding it against the mounting plate with my hand, i get spark. I think some re-soldering needs done inside there. Like i said, opening it up today to take a look. Ill keep you guys posted.
 
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