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Stainless Valve Cover Bolts and a Real Gasket...hmmmm

  • Thread starter Thread starter Good Times
  • Start date Start date
G

Good Times

Guest
Ok so I was advised by BassCliff to us thread sealer on my valve cover bolts to keep them from backing out with the Real Gasket Valve cover gasket.

Then when going through my Z1 stainless bolt kit today I realized that I had stainless for my valve cover bolts. It is advised to use anti-seize on those to keep them from welding to the block.

I'm guessing that the anti-seize will basically do the same thing as the thread sealer. What do you think?

Anyone else run a Real Gasket with stainless steel bolts?
 
Well, neither. Thread sealer is for bolts that go into an oil cavity. They seal the threads so the oil won't leak out. IDK about your bike's head, but I have never seen one where the threads actually go into the oil cavity itself. If yours do, I agree.
Anti-seize is for bolts/nuts that have a tendency to freeze up or "weld" themselves to the metal they are threaded into. Again, I have never seen any valve cover bolts with that problem. Your valve cover bolts do not go into the block, they go into the head. For the other bolts, I agree.
If the point is to keep the bolts from backing out (a real possibility with the very light torque settings the Real Gasket requires), I would use a very light torque thread locker on it. Purple would be best for your very low torque application.
 
koolaid_kid said:
Well, neither. Thread sealer is for bolts that go into an oil cavity. They seal the threads so the oil won't leak out. IDK about your bike's head, but I have never seen one where the threads actually go into the oil cavity itself. If yours do, I agree.
Anti-seize is for bolts/nuts that have a tendency to freeze up or "weld" themselves to the metal they are threaded into. Again, I have never seen any valve cover bolts with that problem. Your valve cover bolts do not go into the block, they go into the head. For the other bolts, I agree.
If the point is to keep the bolts from backing out (a real possibility with the very light torque settings the Real Gasket requires), I would use a very light torque thread locker on it. Purple would be best for your very low torque application.
Click to expand...

You're right. They do go into the head. Brain isn't working after wrenching most of the day.

The head is aluminum. The head cover bolts I am using are stainless. I don't want the stainless bolts to fuse to the aluminum head.
 
If you use a real gasket, the torque spec is so light finger tight is almost too much. Keep that in mind. There are those that love them and those that can't stand em. The major complaints tend to be the gasket squirting out from under the cover because it's been over-torqued, or that you can't torque them down enough to keep the bolts from backing out from vibration without the gasket squirting out. If you plan on using the real gasket you may consider using light duty thread lock...And the torque spec IIRC is in inch pounds, not foot pounds. Most of us don't own a torque wrench that'll do it.
 
TheCafeKid said:
If you use a real gasket, the torque spec is so light finger tight is almost too much. Keep that in mind. There are those that love them and those that can't stand em. The major complaints tend to be the gasket squirting out from under the cover because it's been over-torqued, or that you can't torque them down enough to keep the bolts from backing out from vibration without the gasket squirting out. If you plan on using the real gasket you may consider using light duty thread lock...And the torque spec IIRC is in inch pounds, not foot pounds. Most of us don't own a torque wrench that'll do it.
Click to expand...

Right. I'm good on all of that. I discovered that I can't do inch pounds with my torque wrench either. :)

My main concern is the stainless bolts in the aluminum head. Everything I've seen says to use anti-seize on stainless bolts in aluminum. Not a thread locker.
 
If you are determined to use stainless bolts, you HAVE to use ANTISEIZE! If you want stainless bolts, use the STOCK valve cover gasket. PERIOD!!! Otherwise you are asking either for leaks or broken bolts...... & stainless is NOT fun to try to remove after broken! Ray.
 
rapidray said:
All GOOD bike mechanics own inch pound torque wrenches!!! LOL! Ray.
Click to expand...

Yup! That's why everyone knows you're the awesomest bike mechanic ever Ray!!!!!!! Personally I dont own one!! Never had a problem working on em though!!!!!! But I'm not nearly as awesome as you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe I will be when I grow up!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
rapidray said:
If you are determined to use stainless bolts, you HAVE to use ANTISEIZE! If you want stainless bolts, use the STOCK valve cover gasket. PERIOD!!! Otherwise you are asking either for leaks or broken bolts...... & stainless is NOT fun to try to remove after broken! Ray.
Click to expand...


Aww man.....but my stainless bolts look so cool!!!

I can't be cool and practical at the same time? :cool:
 
You need a 1/4" torque wrench to get into inch pounds. You can borrow mine if you bring the bike here.
 
rapidray said:
If you are determined to use stainless bolts, you HAVE to use ANTISEIZE! If you want stainless bolts, use the STOCK valve cover gasket. PERIOD!!! Otherwise you are asking either for leaks or broken bolts...... & stainless is NOT fun to try to remove after broken! Ray.
Click to expand...
As a corollary are you saying that you cannot use anti-seize on SS bolts and then only torque them to 7-8 inch pounds? I can't see why they would break if you put anti-seize on them, that is the whole point of anti-seize. Not arguing, just attempting to understand what seems to be conflicting information.
 
Would not some Locktite just be enough, it would hold the bolt in place, and it will not allow the stainless steel bolt to be in direct contact with the aluminum head. I have done it this way in the past with no issues, but maybe I was just lucky so far.
 
GateKeeper said:
Would not some Locktite just be enough, it would hold the bolt in place, and it will not allow the stainless steel bolt to be in direct contact with the aluminum head. I have done it this way in the past with no issues, but maybe I was just lucky so far.
Click to expand...

Rays point was about galvanic corrosion. When you use two different metals and apply pressure, heat, salt and/or moisture the two metals will corrode and basically fuse together. This is why when you look at a water heater there will be dielectric fittings where the copper pipe meets up with the galvanized steel.

Anti-seize prevents this corrosion from occurring.
 
Good Times said:
Can I borrow yours? :lol:
Click to expand...
Well, he did specify 'good'.*:p

koolaid_kid said:
As a corollary are you saying that you cannot use anti-seize on SS bolts and then only torque them to 7-8 inch pounds? I can't see why they would break if you put anti-seize on them, that is the whole point of anti-seize. Not arguing, just attempting to understand what seems to be conflicting information.
Click to expand...

Two separate issues seem to be at play here...one is galvanic corrosion from interfacing two dissimilar metals (SS & alu), and the other is securing the bolts (either stock, or SS), given the low torque requirements. Given the lubricating qualities of anti-seize, it might exacerbate the problem of the tendency of bolts to loosen. IMHO, the best overall solution for the OP would be to use stock bolts with the Real Gasket. FWIW, I have been using the (same) Real Gasket (with stock bolts & no thread sealer) for over 5 years now, without issues & lost bolts, etc. I also have a fancy Snap-On torque wrench especially for this application, but finger-tight + 1/2 turn will also do the job, I've found. ;)
 
Oh and a quick drive by of the Loctite site indicates that yes indeed it is a means of prevent corrosion between dis-similar fasteners.

YAY!
 
TheCafeKid said:
Rays point was about galvanic corrosion. When you use two different metals and apply pressure, heat, salt and/or moisture the two metals will corrode and basically fuse together. This is why when you look at a water heater there will be dielectric fittings where the copper pipe meets up with the galvanized steel.

Anti-seize prevents this corrosion from occurring.
Click to expand...
Correct. However, I must caution, this happens over time/exposure to elements/temp changes. I suggest, also, that the copper to steel connection is a bit different than stainless steel to aluminum. I have done quite a few water heater/water softener installs, and I have never seen the issues with ss and aluminum that I have seen with copper and steel. Stainless is far more inert than copper or steel. Apples to oranges, perhaps?
 
Mysuzyq said:
Well, he did specify 'good'.*:p



Two separate issues seem to be at play here...one is galvanic corrosion from interfacing two dissimilar metals (SS & alu), and the other is securing the bolts (either stock, or SS), given the low torque requirements. Given the lubricating qualities of anti-seize, it might exacerbate the problem of the tendency of bolts to loosen. IMHO, the best overall solution for the OP would be to use stock bolts with the Real Gasket. FWIW, I have been using the (same) Real Gasket (with stock bolts & no thread sealer) for over 5 years now, without issues & lost bolts, etc. I also have a fancy Snap-On torque wrench especially for this application, but finger-tight + 1/2 turn will also do the job, I've found. ;)
Click to expand...
Let's get one thing out of the way here; thread sealer seals threads. Not required for this install.
So, there are two real issues here. One, the OP wants to use his fancy ss bolts. Two, he wants to use a Real Gasket. They do not have to be conflicting issues.
First, anti-seize is designed to make the galvanic corrosion a non-issue. However, the RG bolts can only be torqued down to a very small setting. So the combination of anti-seize and a RG seem to be conflicting requirements. Perhaps this is the reason for RR's response, but I cannot and will not speak for him.
Second, galvanic corrosion occurs over time. How often do you adjust your valves? Mine get done once a season at the very least, so I remove the bolts periodically.
Third, what type of conditions is your bike subjected to? Do you leave it under a waterspout all its life?
Lastly, the main method to prevent galvanic corrosion is to prevent direct contact between two dissimilar metals. Does not a thread lock do that as well? Mine does, not sure about yours.
Inquiring minds would like to know.
 
I was at least checking the clearances three to four times a year (usually only had to adjust anything once or twice a season) and I will admit to never using anti seize on any of my SS bolts. Not saying its un-necessary, just that I didn't do it.
And, ironically,the only time ive had a cover bolt snap was a stock bolt in the clutch cover of my 1100E, when I removed it to replace it with SS bolts.

Which brings up the question...most of the stock bolts were steel were they not? So the logic that SS bolts require anti-seize and stock ones don't doesn't really seem to make any sense....
 
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