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Starter was fine... Now A Slow Whirr...

  • Thread starter Thread starter phaeton
  • Start date Start date
P

phaeton

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It seems I'm having troubles with my starter or something in the circuit. I was starting my bike, and it turned over (the starter that is) once or twice fine and all of a sudden the lights all dimmed and the starter was making this "ggrrrrrr whirrrrrrrr grrrrrrrrrrr" (imagine the regular starter noise slowed down 100x). I immediately stopped try to start it, I turned it off, back on, tested for half a sec, same noise.

I went to check the terminals on my batteries, and I burned myself! The wires were extremely hot, and only from 2-3 seconds max starting time.

At this point I gave up trying to start it using the starter since I was already late, and it push started no problemo.

It's late and I can't check until tomorrow morning, but does anyone know what could be the problem? Could it (hopefully) just be a short circuit somewhere? Maybe the relay is shorting out? If it is the starter, what is the chance that its just dirty and needs cleaning?

Thanks very much for any help!

(I searched but found no problems that sounded like mine, nor does my Clymer manual address the issue)
 
loose magnet

loose magnet

I had a similar event, and found that one of the magnets in the starter had come loose from the housing and jammed the armature. Epoxied it back in place and it works.

Now if I could only get the carbs sorted....
 
I agree with Sqaure time for a Starter rebuild and Stockers.com is the way to go
 
Well I took out the starter, put it straight on the battery, didn't really spin. Took it apart, cleaned it out, especially the piece where the brushes make contact (there is lots of brush left), but it back together, runs like new!

Thanks guys!
 
It's always nice to find a solution that was easier and less exspensive then you thought it might be. :D
 
Oh man, its doing it again!

Just this morning, tried it out, slow grinding like spin, battery terminals heat up.

Does anyone know what this could be?

The starter was just out, completely disassembled, properly inserted, everything was cleaned, it worked like a champ after reassembly, worked fine yesterday, I wake up this morning and bam, doesn't work again.

Could it have anything to do with moisture? I'm slowly getting aggravated at this, right during my exam time :(

Is there anything that could be happening with the starter clutch assembly? I know its only two gears (or one gear with two sets of teeth), but could that be slipping and causing the starter to "jam" or something? It is not the stock starter, looks like it has been replaced by someone, it was in great condition other than some fine black dust...

Thanks for any help guys!
 
Honestly I would still get a rebuilt at this point. If it's not spinning like crazy when you tap it right from the battery then it's on it's way out.
 
Well see, last time we took it out (god I hate the carbeurator removal/installation), tapped terminals to a battery. Slow spin. Took it apart, put it back together, fast spin like crazy, put it in the bike, started probably 10 or 12 times no problem, this morning, slow grind.

The only reason that a rebuild would suck at the moment for me is my motorcycle is my only method of transportation :(
 
Do you have a two brush starter or a four brush unit?

On my four brush starter I discovered that there is a design flaw in the way the brush springs are shaped (right where they contact the back of the brushes) that causes them to "catch" on the brush guides and the result is that the brushes are no longer being pressed against the armature properly. On my bike it had been that way so long that the brushes had disintigrated... If yours still look good you can try what I did:

take a needlenose pliers and very carefully twist the spring ends around so that the edge no longer "catches" on the brush guides. On my starter it was so obvious that the guides actually had grooves ground into them -- if this is your problem you'll know exactly what I mean. By "rolling" the ends back you'll notice that the springs can travel much farther into the guides, and provide proper pressure to the brushes.

The reason your starter is spinning so slowly is that one or more brushes is failing to make contact, and the other brushes are are being forced to do more work (thus the heating up of your wires, etc.).

Hope this is helpful!

Steve 8)
 
OK, got the starter out, took it to the shop, the guy said that the bushings are worn, and the rotor is making contact with the magnet and thats the short right there.

Stockers is far from me and don't have the money really to get the rebuild kit, so I'm going to manufacture new bushings if I cannot find equivalents from some industrial suppliers... earliest that will happen is mid next week :/ Oh well, its push start for now :D

Thanks for the help guys.
 
I THINK IM HAVING THE SAME PROBLEM ON MY 79 750. IT CRANKS, CRANKS, STOPS, CRANKS STOPS. NEVER GOES CONSISTENTLY. SOME TIMES IT GOES SLOW, THAN ALL OF A SUDDEN CRANKS FAST. EVEN IF IT DOES DIE, I GOT A KICKSTART :)
 
Its a pandemic! Exact same symptoms. It push starts easily (like a loaded dump truck) and runs fine otherwise. Looking at stockers.com. It appears by looking at my (GS1100GK) parts fische that I probably have a 2 brush starter. I'm probably just going to order a rebuilt since some of the teeth on my armature are missing part of the tips.
 
phaeton said:
OK, got the starter out, took it to the shop, the guy said that the bushings are worn, and the rotor is making contact with the magnet and thats the short right there.

Stockers is far from me and don't have the money really to get the rebuild kit, so I'm going to manufacture new bushings if I cannot find equivalents from some industrial suppliers... earliest that will happen is mid next week :/ Oh well, its push start for now :D

Thanks for the help guys.
Click to expand...

You get'er fixed up yet?
 
phaeton said:
OK, got the starter out, took it to the shop, the guy said that the bushings are worn, and the rotor is making contact with the magnet and thats the short right there.
Click to expand...

Electric motor lesson coming up. :-)

This (the contact between armature and magnets) is not an electrical short and is not the reason for the heating up. The leads heat up because they are drawing so much current because the motor is not turning fast enough.

A motor runs on EMF (ElectroMotive Force) or voltage. When the armature spins in the magnetic field it also acts as a generator, making another EMF in the opposite direction (called back EMF). This controls the amount of current that the battery voltage can send through the wires.

When you prevent a motor shaft from spinning it is still drawing the supply EMF but not generating any back EMF. The result is high current and the wires will either melt themselves or burn the insulating varnish off. When they melt you have an open circuit, when they burn the varnish off you have an electrical short.

The reason for understanding what is happening is this:- If you are going to replace your bushes, all you have to do is fit them with close enough tolerances so that the spindle doesn't hit the body and slow its rotation. That is all you need.

Having said that, remember that as soon as you load up the motor the spindle will try to push to one side. It will spin easily when out of the bike, but as soon as it is in under load the tolerances have to be close enough to hold against that sideways effort.

And the good thing about all this is ... When a motor is side-loaded as the starter motor is, then the bushes tend to wear more on one side. It might be that you can turn the existing bushes through 180 degrees and you have a temporary fix. I haven't seen the motor and don't know if this is possible, but it's worth a look.

You have now survived DC Machines 101. :-)

Wow, this takes me back. It was 1968 that I started studying Electrical Engineering, failed most exams because I was out riding dirt bikes, and in less than 3 years I was kicked out. 8O

Kim
 
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