Starting to get frustrated

[biker_guy]

My bike seemed to be running pretty good. I still need to get the air box boots and just learn that I need to check the seal on the air box it self. But nothing that made me not want to trust it a few 2-3 hr tirps. I ran into rain on one of these trips and had some problems with the bike getting up to highway speed. Did some reading and decided to start with changing the wires. It is a better spark all plugs are firing and gapped correctly. Would a better spark magnify the problems that I haven't addressed yet? It seems to now be running rougher. When I finished putting on new wires it sounded like the carbs needed to be synced really bad. Started syncing the carbs and notices the every few seconds #3 would jump way out of wack for a few seconds and the bike would sputter. You guys can tear me apart if you want from all the things I'm not doing right or havn't done at all cause I'm tired of working I want to be riding.

Also after changing the wires accidentally I crossed 1 and 2. Wondering if I still had the wires out of order I pulled the wires off one at a time. #4 does not effect the motor as much or at all compared to the others. All are new plugs. I re-gapped #4 and the spark is blue.

 

[biker_guy]

ok well an update. One reason it was running so rough is because I'm using the homemade carb sync and for some reason thought that the #1 carb was the one to sync to. I guess I just assumed that because it was the one on the end. And we all know how far assuming gets anyone. So I synced to the #2 carb and I'm starting to calm down because that really smoothed things out, but still the hesitation in carb #3 not nearly as bad but still there.

 

[nisom512]

ok well an update. One reason it was running so rough is because I'm using the homemade carb sync and for some reason thought that the #1 carb was the one to sync to. I guess I just assumed that because it was the one on the end. And we all know how far assuming gets anyone. So I synced to the #2 carb and I'm starting to calm down because that really smoothed things out, but still the hesitation in carb #3 not nearly as bad but still there.

have you rebuilt the carbs? fully? how about intake o-rings? and when you did the carbs did you get the carb o-ring kit?

 

[almarconi]

So I synced to the #2 carb and I'm starting to calm down because that really smoothed things out, but still the hesitation in carb #3 not nearly as bad but still there.

When syncing the carbs you sync to the #3 carb because it has no adjustment. Then adjust #2.

 

[Steve]

ok well an update. One reason it was running so rough is because I'm using the homemade carb sync and for some reason thought that the #1 carb was the one to sync to. I guess I just assumed that because it was the one on the end. And we all know how far assuming gets anyone. So I synced to the #2 carb and I'm starting to calm down because that really smoothed things out, but still the hesitation in carb #3 not nearly as bad but still there.

Now, let's make sure we're all talking about the same thing. :-k

The manuals all state that carb #3 is the master carb, because that is the one that the cable is attached to. We now need to make sure that you are counting the carbs from the proper side. #1 is under your clutch hand, #4 is under your throttle hand. They are numbered from left to right AS YOU ARE SITTING ON THE BIKE, not as you are looking at it from the front.

Factory procedure further specifies that you sync #2 to match #3, then set #1 to be just above 2&3, then finally set #4 to match #1, which should still be just above 2&3. How much is "just above"? Nobody has given any firm numbers, but the Suzuki tool uses steel balls that are about 1 cm in diameter and the picture in the manual shows them about half a ball higher. I don't think that would translate to .5cm of mercury, but I have no idea. The Suzuki gauge is like a lot of the others in that there are no numbers on it to indicate the amount of vacuum. The actual amount of vacuum does not matter, it's only how evenly the four cylinders are matched.

.

 

[biker_guy]

Have not rebuilt the carbs at all. I did take them all apart and clean everything out clipped a piece off my wire brush to put in all the hole. Everything looked good so I just reused it. I guess this is everyone's opinion I did not dip them because I took them all apart and cleaned them. When I first started working on this I was reading people doing one or the either not both. So to answer the other question no I did not get the o-ring kit. I have replace the intake boots and they came with new intake o-rings when I got them.

I was counting in the correct order with #1 being under the clutch hand. So I guess I'm synced wrong again because aparently who ever I read that from on here wasn't counting from the correct side. But with all this syncing I'm doing it's becoming not so big o' deal.

 

[Guest]

Take it from me. I was in the smae boat you are when i had my 550. I finally got smart and dipped the carbs , and the improvement was astounding. course i had the help of steve to get them dipped. I also dipped the ones on my 450. it really does make a big difference , but dont forget the o-rings.

 

[biker_guy]

So what do you dip them in?

 

[Guest]

I use " Gunk" carb and parts cleaner. Its in a 3qt can. you can get it at Advance Auto Parts for like 18 bucks.

 

[biker_guy]

OK! so carbs are in the dip right now. I have a box of nitrile o-rings that I would like to use but I can't find the sizes anywhere. I swear I've seen them posted before but I could only think of so many ways to put the phrase "o-rings"

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

Robert Barr is a good friend of the forum.

http://cycleorings.com

He's taken all the guesswork out of O-rings for our carbs. Just order up a set (they're cheap), then reassemble.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[biker_guy]

I saw that link on your site, but I had this box of nitrile metric o-rings. They don't fit anything! I bought them for something else on the bike they ended up being too thick. There's one size that will fit the air screw but that doesn't get me the rest of the o-rings. So I put in an order. I've had that box for almost a year now. I guess I could just put a bunch on an ink pen or something. You could grip it pretty good.

 

[TheCafeKid]

I saw that link on your site, but I had this box of nitrile metric o-rings. They don't fit anything! I bought them for something else on the bike they ended up being too thick. There's one size that will fit the air screw but that doesn't get me the rest of the o-rings. So I put in an order. I've had that box for almost a year now. I guess I could just put a bunch on an ink pen or something. You could grip it pretty good.

I like this guy...he's got a sense of humour! Too many times people get pi$$y when people try to tell them the RIGHT way and want to take the EASY way and then just get more and more frustrated...Its pretty refreshing to see someone listen, and even though its frustrating, have a sense of humor about it....

 

[biker_guy]

Just a little more info now that I have a little more knowledge. The bike is stock except for the 4-1 mac exhaust. The main jet is 115 I don't know which one is the pilot jet and which one is the starter jet but one says 200 maybe that's 20.0 and I can't see the point. But the other says 42.5. Anyway I've read many say unless I have a exhaust with pods I don't need to mess with the jets and that's not stock jets from what I pulled off basscliff's site.

 

[Steve]

OK, the 200 (yes, that's 200, not 20.0) is your pilot air jet, and it lives in the intake throat. That is a bit larger than stock, which is 180. This will tend to lean out your pilot mixture. Quite frankly, I don't remember having anybody ever mention changing these jets on a stock bike.

The 42.5 jets are the pilot fuel jets, they are the ones that live in the float bowl, next to the main jets, behind the rubber plugs. That is the stock size and should be OK.

Your main jets are the ones to be concerned about, though. Stock is 115. With your MAC pipe, you would need something between a 120 and 125, depending on how well it's baffled. My son's '81 850G has a pipe that might be a MAC, but we're not sure. It is well-baffled (quiet enough to run with our GoldWings ) and is running 120 mains. A freer-flowing (noisier) pipe would need 122.5 or 125 mains, unless you are also running pod filters, then I would suggest 130s.

If it were my bike, I would suggest getting the stock 180 pilot air jets back in, changing the mains as suggested above and starting with the idle mixture adjustment screws at 3 turns out from lightly seated.

By the way, the easiest way to tell which carb is the "master" carb?
It's the one that the cable pulls on first. All the others are liked to that one.

.

 

[TheCafeKid]

OK, the 200 (yes, that's 200, not 20.0) is your pilot air jet, and it lives in the intake throat. That is a bit larger than stock, which is 180. This will tend to lean out your pilot mixture. Quite frankly, I don't remember having anybody ever mention changing these jets on a stock bike.

The 42.5 jets are the pilot fuel jets, they are the ones that live in the float bowl, next to the main jets, behind the rubber plugs. That is the stock size and should be OK.

Your main jets are the ones to be concerned about, though. Stock is 115. With your MAC pipe, you would need something between a 120 and 125, depending on how well it's baffled. My son's '81 850G has a pipe that might be a MAC, but we're not sure. It is well-baffled (quiet enough to run with our GoldWings ) and is running 120 mains. A freer-flowing (noisier) pipe would need 122.5 or 125 mains, unless you are also running pod filters, then I would suggest 130s.

If it were my bike, I would suggest getting the stock 180 pilot air jets back in, changing the mains as suggested above and starting with the idle mixture adjustment screws at 3 turns out from lightly seated.

By the way, the easiest way to tell which carb is the "master" carb?
It's the one that the cable pulls on first. All the others are liked to that one.

.

Unless you looked it up, im not possitive the 180 WAS the stock pilot airjet. Bill swears up and down they're 160s, and so have a couple of other people. But BOTH of the sets of 1100E carbs i have had 180s in them. HOWEVER, neither bike was in stock form when i bought it, and jetting had been done to them.

On changing the pilot air jet: Dynojet calls for changing out to THEIR pilot air jet (and I dont know what size in MIKUNI that would be, but in DYNOJET sizes, theirs IS a 160) IF the bike will start cold with no choke, and idle rises above recommended specifications when warm. Basicly, they include that airjet to LEAN that circuit out from what it sounds like. Some bikes actually DO have to be leaned in certain circuits when going to pods and a pipe. The Dynojet kit for a GSXR for example includes recucing "plugs" for the holes in the slides, (where we would drill them out) and the main jet is actually SMALLER than stock...alot has to do with their needle design more than anything...

But Steve is pretty right on with his explaination and jetting suggestions. Im not quite sure if or how the amount of packing in the baffle enters into the equation at all, but im going to see how much things change when i repack my SuperTrapp tonight or tomorrow.. I am running a 138 (the DJ equivelant to just about a mikuni 130) with the clip in the 4th slot from bottom. I am hoping that i dont end up too rich still after repacking...I doubt it but we'll see...

 

[biker_guy]

well right now it's a freer flowing exhaust because part of the baffle has rusted it out. It's not designed to hold any packing material so it may just be a freer flowing exhaust anyway. I've been trying to get a new baffle cause it's only like 30 bucks shipped. This is the only place I could find a replacement http://www.crc2onlinecatalog.com/baffles.htm it's the one at the top you first see when you open the page.

When I looked though the jets I was really hoping to find that one was different from the others. Maybe that was the problem with why one of the carbs was kinda hickuping. It's almost like someone would hit the kill switch for just a split second and turn it back on. Only at idle and less than 1/8 throttle. At a stop light I could feel the airbox tap the side of my leg if it did it bad enough. But since that wasn't it I hope this dip gets something I missed.

Do you guys have any recommended sites for the cheapest to get jets?

 

[Steve]

Unless you looked it up, im not possitive the 180 WAS the stock pilot airjet. But Steve is pretty right on with his explaination and jetting suggestions. ...

From the carb "sticky" at the top of the forum, post #38:

1982 GS850GZ Carb. Specs.

mm (in.)

Carb. type: Mikuni BS32SS
Bore size: 32 (1.26)
I.D. no. 45160*
Idle rpm/min 1050 +- 100 rpm
Fuel Level 5.0 +- 0.5 (0.2 +- 0.02)
Float height 22.4 +- 1.0 (0.88 +- 0.04)
Main Jet #115
Main air jet 1.7
Jet needle 5D50
Needle jet X-5
Pilot jet #40
By pass 1.0, 0.8, 0.8
Pilot outlet 0.7
Valve seat 2.0
Starter jet #32.5
Pilot screw pre-set (well.....maybe)
Pilot air jet #180*
Throttle cable play 0.5-1.0 (0.02-0.04)
Choke cable play 0.5-1.0 (0.02-0.04)

*New Z model spec.

Im not quite sure if or how the amount of packing in the baffle enters into the equation at all, but im going to see how much things change when i repack my SuperTrapp tonight or tomorrow. ...

Can anybody argue that the amount of packing or the type of material will affect the air flow through the muffler?
One reason the carbs need to be re-jetted when adding a 4-into-1 pipe is that it flows more air.
Does it not make sense that some fine-tuning might be in order if you change the amount of air flowing by changing the packing? :-k

.

 

[TheCafeKid]

From the carb "sticky" at the top of the forum, post #38:




Can anybody argue that the amount of packing or the type of material will affect the air flow through the muffler?
One reason the carbs need to be re-jetted when adding a 4-into-1 pipe is that it flows more air.
Does it not make sense that some fine-tuning might be in order if you change the amount of air flowing by changing the packing? :-k

.

Your carbs' specs are for an 850, which used BS32SS, Mine are BS34SS...Which are what I thought we were speaking of, so my fault there.. .

Actually, Ive been doing A LOT of reading on the flow rate of a 4into1 vs a stock pipe, and the consensus is that MANY 4into1 headers in reality DO NOT flow any more air than the stock pipes. In my pipes case, certainly, but it depends on how large the final stage of the exhaust is. If your stock pipes have a 1.5 inch opening each, and your new 4into1 isnt at LEAST 3 inches past the collector, you're not flowing any more air. it becomes a weight savings and sound/asthetics issue at that point. Now, if you were flowing out of that 3 inch pipe completely FREE, no baffle, that would be a different story.

Another example. My SuperTrapp pipe has (and i havent actually measured the diameter after the collector so this is a guess) roughly a 3.5 inch pipe from the collector to the can. However, in my reading, and answers to my questions from those who KNOW these pipes well, drag racers mostly, A SuperTrapp pipe with LESS than 7 discs mounted is just as constrictive, if not MORE SO, than the stock exhaust.

 

[Steve]

Your carbs' specs are for an 850, which used BS32SS, Mine are BS34SS...Which are what I thought we were speaking of, so my fault there..

Well, the original poster has an '82 850L, so I have been thinking that those are the carbs we're supposed to be talking about. :-k

By the way, post #38, quoted above, is for an '82. Post #20 covers the '80 models, and they do have a 200 pilot air jet.

.