Stator and wiring burn out ? - GS 550et 1980

[ukjules]

P s the reg and rect must be one unit on my bike !!

 

[tom203]

Use a jumper wire from positive rectifier output to positive battery terminal…..and see if output compares to how rectifier behaved on other bike. The internal harness connection could have been smoked during your wiring misadventures.

 

[ukjules]

Ok. I'm afraid your gonna have to be very specific.
What am I checking volts DC or AC , ohms ?

I don't think I can give more stats !
The GSX is 8miles away from where I am.
Do you want the reg fully connected on this test ?

I am beginning to think I know what you mean. You mean to : from reg ,-
Wire as normal to stator - 3 wires
Neg wire to earth as normal
Pos wire direct to positive battery terminal which ignores the loom ? Hence revealing if wires fried?

Is that it ?
Can a reg be wired.like this full time ?

 

[ukjules]

I'll try what you say tomorrow . I like the logic !
Remember I am the worst at elecs as red green colour blind and have always struggled with this !!

Wiring a trailer up to my car almost have me a mental breakdown . But I did it after two weeks of grind with no help using a light bulb to test function ....

Advice appreciated by all !

 

[pdqford]

I am way out.of my league here.

It has to be wiring ?
How do I check wiring ? I don't know the path of he wire to the Reg ?

Here is how to measure the voltage dropped in your wiring loom between the regulator output and the battery positive post:
(You don't have to know the exact route through the wiring loom to measure the voltage dropped in that circuit.)

To measure voltage dropped in that circuit there must be current flowing through the circuit so you need to have the bike running.

With your meter set to DC voltage and the 20 volt scale.
Place the positive probe of your meter to the red wire coming out of the regulator.
Place the negative probe of your meter to the positive battery post.

Your meter is now creating an alternate route from the regulator output to the battery post.
And your meter will now display the voltage that your wring loom couldn't handle (i.e. volage dropped) because of resistance in the wiring loom.

You should like to see no more than 0.3 to 0.4volts dropped.in the circuit.

(If more than then 0.5volts is dropped, THEN you need to know the exact route through the wiring loom so you can use your meter to similarly test for voltage drop in each segment of the path through the wiring loom to find the culprit(s) ,)

Hope this helps........

 

[ukjules]

Update - status
Yes info given does help ! I can just about understand it.
So I need to do the following,:

- voltage drop test from.pos red wire from regulator to the POS battery terminal with bike running.
I assume.the voltage drop is whatever the result is minus the voltage between battery pods s and neg posts .

- temporarily wire the pos terminal of regulator directly to the POS battery terminal (which if it is faulty wiring ) could show charging of battery when bike running. I.e test charging in this setup.

Will post results today as it seems this will get 'us' somewhere.

​

 

[ukjules]

Voltage drop test result:
(With known working reg from.my GSX)
Between reg output and battery positive.

Static battery - 12.71v

Leads on as described / bike not running :
9.97v

Bike running leads on as described - 9.55v

So voltage drop = 3.6v
Note this works fine on my GSX but is a small regulator for that bike.

 

[ukjules]

Using gsx regulator:
Wiring reg output direct to bikes battery terminal.
(This with known working reg and the new stator)

Still not charging !
No increase in volts on battery with revs.

Using original regulator when I caused issue:
Battery voltage - 12.71v
Voltage on leads POS reg to pos battery -0v
As above but bike running - 0v
Clearly this must have blown ? Although tests fine bench testing !!!

Using new regulator :
Battery voltage - 12.7 v
Voltage on leads POS reg to pos battery -12.4v
As above but bike running 12.07v
Voltage drop - 0.65v

Connecting reg POS direct to battery pos - still won't show charge.
​

I am now stuck. Wiring issue but how as I've removed that section ?

Couod it be the new stator ? Again worked with basic bench tests ? But fails on one new test I showed past posts ??

And note I put this very battery on my GSX and it does accept charge.

I am totally stumped and cannot understand how what I did caused this after renewing everything .

But yes I need to test the wiring through the loom.
How in gods name do i do that.
Is it tank off and get stuck in ? Coloured wiring diagrams don't help me.much....

I'll let you guys digest this , add anything and I will consider trying to voltage drop test the entire route if the reg loom output wire ....

 

[pdqford]

That wiring diagram you attached is too tough for me to read
(With my iPad I used to be able to "unpinch" a diagram to expand it but they won't let my iPad access GSResources any more..)

I can only suggest that you go to BileCliff's web site and see the factory service manual here:

GS550_77-82_all.pdf (bwringer.com)​

I don't know if the UK models were different, but if you go to :

pg 124-129 for testing the charging system with separate rectifier and regulator units..
pg 158-159 for the wiring diagram for that system.

or

pg 191-195 for testing the charging system with integrated rectifier/regulator.
pg 158-159 for the wiring diagram for the intigrated system.

Hope you get it solved.

 

[ukjules]

I have a clear image but it's 4mb so can't put on here as 2mb max. This from a Haynes and barely useable.

The testing is done !!!!!!!
All analysis on here.
​​​​
I now it seems have to trace the wire in the loom where there is a fault it seems .
​​​​
I await for help ..... As I can't do this . But can be the person onsite to do what's needed.

I will however check page 191 and the diagram on 158.

​​

 

[ukjules]

Unfortunately I can no longer post images on this site. No idea what's happening but the site is so hard to use on a mobile.

So I can't send proper wiring diagrams.

The bike now sits waiting for someone to tell me how on earth I voltage drop check the loom from the regulator which seems to be the issue

 

[tom203]

Let’s back up a bit…..
slayer asked…”Do I understand you correctly that you ran the bike until it got warm with the 3 stator wires shorted together and held to ground (earth)?”

Did you just miss type?
Your regulator is proven ok…based on other bike. But no stator output, so it seem this stator is cooked….or maybe stator leads got pinched on stator cover during installation. I’d remove the 3 stator leads from r/r and check all three for a grounding out on motor….but this isn’t very conclusive, since when bike runs there are magnetic forces tugging at stator windings in their slots,

 

[ukjules]

I didn't miss it as I never said that .
All stats are available on thread.

We are down to wiring

 

[ukjules]

Bike to a bike garage as this is beyond me.
Iv replaced the entire charging system and still it will not charge.
Every possible test on the regulator and stator has been done. Fuses ok. Battery ok.

So it has to be the wiring or an incredible coincidence that the new stator is faulty in some way.

So wiring I simply have no idea what to check and results I posted to a question on here point that this is the fault .

Where this fault is in the wiring is beyond me thus to a garage .

In all my years iv never had a problem like this . Fixing charging issues is usually simple !

Anyway bike stored and be a few weeks for garage too look at it.

 

[slayer61]

I didn't miss it as I never said that .
All stats are available on thread.

We are down to wiring

From post 6 in this same thread...

Status of as was with old stator :
- when bike cold two tests seemed to show it to be ok. It failed when I had warmed bike up on 3 wires to earth.
- checking regulator it tested ok This testing with the diode setting on MM.​

Sorry Jules. I thought you really ran the bike with the 3 stator wires shorted together and to ground based on the above statement.

 

[ukjules]

Ok current status : I send so all know what happened and status.

I went away for a few months , returned. Bike was sat with neg terminal off battery. So I put back for a ride but I made the mistake of wiring the neg earth of the regulator to the POS terminal of the battery.
3 yellow leads were corrected correctly and pos output lead was correct to loom.
I ride one mile and bike just died.
Since then bike has never been able to charge.

Anyway I realised my mistake on roadside and managed to bump bike to get back after bodging 3 stator wires and earthing reg wire properly.

- repaired the 3 yellow stator wires that had fried
Still no charging.
- added new stator
​​​still no charging
- added regulator from GSX that works and charges
Still no charging
-Bought new regulator for bike
Still no charging

Fuses ok , Battery known to work and charge on GSX, Bike ok in every other way.
Bike ran perfectly before this incident

 

[ukjules]

As now have a bag of regulators though I'd test them for charging on GSX.
Original - this on when charging system blow up. On GSX this one shows battery charging at 16v ! Clearly not good

GSX original one - reg works fine
New reg for GS - works fine

So I know I have a working regulator (or a few ) for the GS.

Stator or wiring (it is so unlikely that a brand new stator is faulty it has to be the wiring but that stops me dead hence to a garage in a few weeks)

 

[ukjules]

Update :
New stator confirmed to be faulty after running bike test attached. I took a risk at buying a cheap one which has not paid off and threw me down a rabbit hole.

Beware anyone who assumes that a bench test with bike not running is 100% confirmation of a working stator !! Mine tested fine in those tests !

New regulator Def works fine as tested on another bike - GSX

Asked for a swap out stator as this one faulty.

 

[slayer61]

Congratulations on getting it sorted Jules. Well done. Perseverance pays off in the end

 

[ukjules]

But hold on ........
Yes faulty stator being sent off today and replacement being sent to me. We can only be sure when I see charging happening !!!

But imagine if this 2nd new stator passes all tests but doesn't charge the bike ......
It can't be the regulator, battery , fuses .......

But let's hope ! Will update. But my mistake mush have blown the original stator and regulator. Not much else to blow ?

Will update !