stator output 13.8V

[Killer2600]

In this stator layout ( wye connected- three wire leads), you will always be measuring the combined output of TWO phases, not one; this is why it's used- it gives you a higher voltage which is useful at low revs to at least get some charging ability.

I've not unwound a GS stator but to be technical, delta configuration also has 3 wire leads. Your trying to get into design theory, I'm working on the output end. In applying KIS (Keep It Simple) methodology, it doesn't matter how the 3-phase is made you only need to know what your output should be. And back to adding your three outputs, like posplayr said, they don't add!

 

[elrico]

Just a number... of many in any circuit design.

 

[tom203]

I've not unwound a GS stator but to be technical, delta configuration also has 3 wire leads. Your trying to get into design theory, I'm working on the output end. In applying KIS (Keep It Simple) methodology, it doesn't matter how the 3-phase is made you only need to know what your output should be. And back to adding your three outputs, like posplayr said, they don't add!

My dad used to say " it's no good beating a dead horse". Actually, you can make 3 phase windings in slightly different congfigurations, but since "design theory" is unappealing, I won't travel there. But if you like, you could make a stator that had 3 totally seperate phases - 6 wire leads- but it would have poor output compared to what Mr. Tesla dreamed up in 1880.

 

[Killer2600]

My dad used to say " it's no good beating a dead horse". Actually, you can make 3 phase windings in slightly different congfigurations, but since "design theory" is unappealing, I won't travel there. But if you like, you could make a stator that had 3 totally seperate phases - 6 wire leads- but it would have poor output compared to what Mr. Tesla dreamed up in 1880.

LOL, are we even on the subject of motorcycle electrical? I doubt you are, more like power transmission theory. You probably want to convert the stator 3-phase to 180 degree 2-phase with a power transformer made for such things so you can household appliances on the bike :lol: Or maybe your working on a flux capacitor like the Y shaped one in Dr. Brown's Delorean

 

[tom203]

LOL, are we even on the subject of motorcycle electrical?

Well, I am, but you seem to be struggling with it. Like I said before, you can believe what you want, but I'll be content with reality.

 

[Killer2600]

Well, I am, but you seem to be struggling with it. Like I said before, you can believe what you want, but I'll be content with reality.

??? Personally I think it's the opposite but back to adding up the stator output, you find me any combination of hooking up the stators 3 outputs that shows an increase over what we typically get during the stator papers test of any of the two wires and I'll gladly wave the white flag and admit your a genius over even the likes of resident electrical engineer "posplayr"

I think I got that clear as day now so you can stop/avoid side stepping and get right to an answer.

 

[earlfor]

Good intent, but not quite accurate.

I know you were pointing out the error in the title, but then it took a turn "south".

Yeah, each leg produces about 80 VAC, but they don't add up to 240.

Posplayr or one of the other electrical engineers would have to chime in to give you an accurate number, but it won't be 240.

.

Actually, the legs aren't even 80v at other than a single point. Since output of a leg is dependent on engine rpm, voltage varies and on a spec stator, the voltage output would only be 80 @5k rpm.

 

[elrico]

Since the common household V/A multi-meter measures average volts ac,it reads say 80vac per/leg,voltage between phases a+b,b+c,and c and a ,that is not the Max Volts value needed to find more info in the charging system.The 138.5V ac max. volts used(calculated fromOhms Law) for more info.like:now connect the 3 generator leads to the half-wave RR unit for the DC volt output magic...Vmax(138.5 AC) x 0.318=44.04 x 0.318=14V DC or so measured at RR out wire then to battery +. The half-wave rectfier simply cuts out the negative alteration.

 

[earlfor]

Since the common household V/A multi-meter measures average volts ac,it reads say 80vac per/leg,voltage between phases a+b,b+c,and c and a ,that is not the Max Volts value needed to find more info in the charging system.The 138.5V ac max. volts used(calculated fromOhms Law) for more info.like:now connect the 3 generator leads to the half-wave RR unit for the DC volt output magic...Vmax(138.5 AC) x 0.318=44.04 x 0.318=14V DC or so measured at RR out wire then to battery +. The half-wave rectfier simply cuts out the negative alteration.

As measured on various motorcycles, the maximum DC charging voltage is not limited to 14v. I have measured 17+ on occasion.

 

[tom203]

??? Personally I think it's the opposite but back to adding up the stator output, you find me any combination of hooking up the stators 3 outputs that shows an increase over what we typically get during the stator papers test of any of the two wires and I'll gladly wave the white flag and admit your a genius over even the likes of resident electrical engineer "posplayr"

I think I got that clear as day now so you can stop/avoid side stepping and get right to an answer.

Weren't you the guy that said..

"They never add up, due to the way the stator and regulator are wired, the output from the stator will always be one of the three phases. "

When you measure the stator output across any two of its wires, you are measuring the combo output of the phases, not just one because they are interconnected - open circuit one phase and your stator output falls off, why not try it on your bike and explore science.

 

[koolaid_kid]

The regulator portion of the R/R keeps it in the 14.5 range max. Any higher and issues exist. I saw 16+ last night on someone's bike. That particular machine will not move until that is fixed. (I would have said rectified, but that seems redundant.)

 

[Killer2600]

Weren't you the guy that said..

"They never add up, due to the way the stator and regulator are wired, the output from the stator will always be one of the three phases. "

When you measure the stator output across any two of its wires, you are measuring the combo output of the phases, not just one because they are interconnected - open circuit one phase and your stator output falls off, why not try it on your bike and explore science.

I see what your getting at but without a neutral line your in the theoretical realm. The individual lines/phases can't be directly measured or used so calculating the sum of two individual lines is merely paperwork. The reality is you never see those individual waveforms on the output, you only see the sum as one of the three possible wire connections aka phases. The phases being AB, BC, and AC. Your focusing on A, B, and C as 3 single phases and that's where we differ.

 

[JayWB]

The 138.5V ac max. volts used(calculated fromOhms Law)

Please explain where you got this number and how Ohm's law was involved????

 

[elrico]

Great find JayWB !!! The is no Ohms Law in the 3 phase generator circuit,save the wire/conductor resistance measured in ohm value.The 138.4-5 Vac is Max.voltage;not the effective or rms values as measured by multi-meter. Say the running gen.voltages, between phases A and B,B and C,and C and A are all at 80Vac. The Max.voltage exists:if we had osciliscope it would be evident showing the max. volt values.Don't have scope? Use sq.root of 3 (1.73) x 80Vac = 138.4-5Vac (max) also 138.4-5Vac divided by 1.73 = 80Vac(effective,rms,multi-meter values) Ohm's Law rules DC circuit calculations:in AC circuits w/resistance or AC impedence,there is relevence.Good eye,and thanks for reading and reply!

 

[tkent02]

And just what does all of this have to do with the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

 

[JayWB]

Ahhhhh, no. Unless I'm gravely mistaken, it's RMS * the square root of 2 (1.414) to calculate peak voltage for a sine wave, not the square root of 3 (1.73). So the Vpeak would be 80 * 1.414, or 113. But the peak voltage is of very little use to us. We care much more about the RMS value.

But I agree that there's no way to use Ohm's law for any of this. Where you got that from is still a mystery to me.

 

[posplayr]

Great find JayWB !!! The is no Ohms Law in the 3 phase generator circuit,save the wire/conductor resistance measured in ohm value.The 138.4-5 Vac is Max.voltage;not the effective or rms values as measured by multi-meter. Say the running gen.voltages, between phases A and B,B and C,and C and A are all at 80Vac. The Max.voltage exists:if we had osciliscope it would be evident showing the max. volt values.Don't have scope? Use sq.root of 3 (1.73) x 80Vac = 138.4-5Vac (max) also 138.4-5Vac divided by 1.73 = 80Vac(effective,rms,multi-meter values) Ohm's Law rules DC circuit calculations:in AC circuits w/resistance or AC impedence,there is relevence.Good eye,and thanks for reading and reply!

ugg.............

if the manual; says measure 80 VAC between any two legs, then there is no more voltage whether it is Delta or Y wound. If you want to use sqrt(3), and if you have a Y wound stator then There is only 80/sqrt(3) volts across any single leg (to neutral). That is less volts not more.

 

[posplayr]

Ahhhhh, no. Unless I'm gravely mistaken, it's RMS * the square root of 2 (1.414) to calculate peak voltage for a sine wave, not the square root of 3 (1.73). So the Vpeak would be 80 * 1.414, or 113. But the peak voltage is of very little use to us. We care much more about the RMS value.

But I agree that there's no way to use Ohm's law for any of this. Where you got that from is still a mystery to me.

the ratio of sqrt(3) is the phase to phase voltage ratio between "Y" and "delta" wound stators. sqrt(3)=V_Y/V_delta

 

[allojohn]

And just what does all of this have to do with the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

I have to ask........African or European?

 

[JayWB]

the ratio of sqrt(3) is the phase to phase voltage ratio between "Y" and "delta" wound stators. sqrt(3)=V_Y/V_delta

Thank you. That makes far more sense.