Stator Papers - Need Clarification Please!!!

[Chuckster]

You guys please help me clarify some steps so I don't screw anything up. 1) In test phase B, when doing the 5000rpm stator test, should the r/r be totally disconnected from everything (even the ground I have hooked up to the battery)? And the three wires from the stator are disconnected right so I can connect my meter to them while the bike's running? 2) Test phase C, it says to disconnect the r/r from the bike. Does that mean all wires, even the ground? How are you going to get any reading from your meter if the r/r is totally disconnected? Also, for the r/r test phase C, is the bike supposed to be running? I'm sorry to be stupid here but could just use a little help which would be greatly appreciated. I have a 1981 Suzuki GS550T. I have a brand new Ricks r/r which has a black ground, red, yellow, red/white, and blue/white wires if that helps any. The yellow and blue/white from the stator hook up directly with the same from the Ricks r/r. The green/white from the stator plugs into another green/white which runs off toward the right side cover of the bike but I have no idea where that goes. I just hooked up the Ricks just like the one I took off was hooked up. I was hoping that a new r/r would fix my problem, but went out Saturday and rode about 50 miles before I started losing power but I did make it home. When I got home, I took the seat off and the r/r was room temp, not even warm. Even though it's new I still wanted to test the r/r if I can sort through the above. All the stator wire combinations tested at 1 Ohms tonight but I still have not tested the stator running yet.

 

[Steve]

1) In test phase B, when doing the 5000rpm stator test, should the r/r be totally disconnected from everything (even the ground I have hooked up to the battery)?
Yes, sort of. To do the stator output test, you are only concerned with the three wires coming from the stator. Not necessary to disconnect the ground for this test.

And the three wires from the stator are disconnected right so I can connect my meter to them while the bike's running?
That is correct. Actually, you can connect the wires, then start the bike. No need to try to connect the wires while the engine is running.

2) Test phase C, it says to disconnect the r/r from the bike. Does that mean all wires, even the ground?
(Had to go look at The Stator Papers to see what test C was.)
Yes, disconnect them ALL. If you can reach the connectors with your meter leads, fine. If they are not so easy to reach, go ahead and remove the r/r from the bike and take it to the kitchen table. (This guarantees that no wires are connected. 8-[ )

How are you going to get any reading from your meter if the r/r is totally disconnected?
For the diode test, your meter provides the power to test the diodes.

Also, for the r/r test phase C, is the bike supposed to be running?
Since you are testing this on the kitchen table, it does not matter if the bike is running or not. Obviously it does NOT need to be running. Just to recap the diode test: With the meter in the DIODE TEST position, place the black meter lead on the black r/r wire. Put the red meter wire on each of the three input wires (the yellow, red/white and blue/white) and note the reading. If it is a digital meter, it should read OL. Now put the red meter lead on the black r/r wire and the black meter lead on each of the three input wires. You should get a reading of about .5 on all three. Now do the same test using the red r/r wire. Connect the red meter lead to the red r/r lead, check the three inputs, should read OL. Reverse the leads, readings should again read about .5. Note that you are doing 12 measurements here. If any one of them is wrong, you will need a replacement r/r.

I'm sorry to be stupid here but could just use a little help which would be greatly appreciated.
Glad to be able to help.

I have a 1981 Suzuki GS550T. I have a brand new Ricks r/r which has a black ground, red, yellow, red/white, and blue/white wires if that helps any. The yellow and blue/white from the stator hook up directly with the same from the Ricks r/r. The green/white from the stator plugs into another green/white which runs off toward the right side cover of the bike but I have no idea where that goes. I just hooked up the Ricks just like the one I took off was hooked up.
Hopefully the red/white wire from the r/r connected to a wire that also disappeared into the main wiring harness. The green/white stator wire and the red/white r/r wire go up to the headlight switch. On your '81, you might have a switch, but it is locked in the ON position. Suzuki wired it this way on the older bikes so that one of the coils on the stator was removed from the charging circuit when the headlight was turned off so the r/r would not have to work so hard dumping all that excess power.

I was hoping that a new r/r would fix my problem, but went out Saturday and rode about 50 miles before I started losing power but I did make it home. When I got home, I took the seat off and the r/r was room temp, not even warm. Even though it's new I still wanted to test the r/r if I can sort through the above. All the stator wire combinations tested at 1 Ohms tonight but I still have not tested the stator running yet.
When you test the stator (with the engine running) keep the rpm between about 4 and 5,000. Exact speed is not critical. What IS important is that you match that rpm for all three tests, and that the AC voltage it puts out is basically the same.

When you are satisfied with that test, connect everything, put your meter into DC VOLTS and connect it across; the battery. With the engine off, you should see about 12.6 on a charged battery. Start the bike, you should still see over 12. Run it up slowly, you should see it go over 13 by about 1500 rpm, then peak between 14 and 15 volts between 2000 and 2500 rpm. As you rev the engine faster, the voltage may drop a bit as it takes a bit more to fire the ignition faster.

Let us know how it turns out.


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[Chuckster]

Steve, thanks very much for your detailed explanation. I really appreciate it. I will keep you posted.

 

[Steve]

One thing I forgot to mention for when you go to connect everything back together...
while it is nice that two out of the three r/r input wires match the colors of the stator output, it does not matter if you match the colors or not. Please note that this is true only for the three input wires. All of the other wires must match colors for everything to work (as well as it can).


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[Chuckster]

Steve,
I ran the stator test this evening with the bike running. My multimeter which was set on AC registered anywhere from 1.8 to 2.2 while testing the three stator wires at about 5000rpm. Never got above that no matter the rpm. I wasn't expecting it too say above 80 volts as I already suspected it was bad; more like expecting it to say 60 volts or something less. I thought it would be putting on something at least. Does this sound like my alternator is practically dead then?

Also, I took the r/r off and tested it (Diode test position). Kinda confused with the readings. It is a brand new Ricks r/r so nothing better be wrong with it.

Readings were as follows:

Red lead on black r/r wire:
Yellow: 578
Blue/white: 568
Red/white: 573

Leads reversed; meter doesn't change (meaning display shows the same as if leads were not connected to anything); shows 1

Black lead to red r/r lead:
Yellow: 568
Blue/white: 579
Red/white: 575

Leads reversed; meter doesn't change; shows 1

I'm confused since you said I should get a reading of about .5?

 

[rustybronco]

is there a decimal point showing before the 578, 568 ect? what does it show when the test leads are connected together in the diode test position?

 

[Chuckster]

is there a decimal point showing before the 578, 568 ect? what does it show when the test leads are connected together in the diode test position?

I'm fairly sure there was no decimal point showing. I will have to check again when I get home this evening. I will try the test leads together then too.

 

[Chuckster]

I ran the stator test this evening with the bike running. My multimeter which was set on AC registered anywhere from 1.8 to 2.2 while testing the three stator wires at about 5000rpm. Never got above that no matter the rpm. I wasn't expecting it too say above 80 volts as I already suspected it was bad; more like expecting it to say 60 volts or something less. I thought it would be putting on something at least. Does this sound like my alternator is practically dead then?

Anybody got any comments on the results of my stator test (cause I'm not sure what it means)?

 

[Steve]

R/R diode test:
OK, the diode test looks good. Even though you did not see a decimal, it might have been on a millivolt scale. If you move the decimal point to show volts (not milli-volts), your readings are .578, .568, .573 and .568, .579, .575. All right where they should be. Rather than an exact reading, it is important that they are very close to each other. Some meters show a "1" when the circuit is open, others show "OL". Mine shows "OL", evidently yours shows "1".

Stator output:
Those readings are way too low. Did you have your meter leads in the right places? Forget the colors, just label the three wires from the stator A, B, and C. Make sure the meter is set to AC volts. Connect one meter lead (it doesn't matter which one) to A, the other meter lead to B. Start the engine, run it to 5000 rpm, read the meter. Record this as voltage from A to B. Move the meter lead from A to C, run the engine, read the meter. Record this as the voltage from B to C. Move the meter lead from B to A, run the engine, read the meter. Record this as voltage from C to A. (I have a sneaking suspicion that you checked each lead to a chassis ground, not another lead.)

Check it one more time and let us know.


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[Hap Call]

Anybody got any comments on the results of my stator test (cause I'm not sure what it means)?

Sounds like ohm reading to me...are you sure you have the meter set on AC volts and not ohms? If it is on AC volts, the stator needs to be replaced. This is unexpected because normally you will see bad readings from one, maybe two of the phases, but not all three. The connection "star" is probably toast.

 

[Chuckster]

Steve,
R/R test:
I get the same results from the old OEM one I took off. If what you are saying is true, then I guess I didn't need a new one after all. After all I had read here about the crappy quality of the old electrical components, I was all but sure that was at least part of my problem so I went ahead and got a new one without even testing the old one first. Oh well, maybe I have a better part now hopefully anyway.

Ah ha!!! I looked at the manual for my multimeter and it says "the approximate forward voltage drop of the diode will be displayed in mV. If the connection is reversed only "1" will be shown". So you were right.

Stator test:
I was testing the three wires from the stator which I disconnected. The blue/white and yellow which run to my r/r; and the green/white which connects to another green/white that goes up through a wiring harness torward my right side cover. I was alternating the leads between the three wires coming from the stator only. How could one of these three wires be a chassis ground? And also, I definately had the meter set on AC. So I don't know what I can alter other than what I did already. Is it possible to have one that "dead" that you barely get a reading like mine? Sounds like I'm on the road to getting a new stator anyway. Can get a used one that may or may not work on Ebay for $53 shipped (guy did say he would refund my money if it didn't work) or get a new one from bikebandit.com for $114 shipped.

Hap Call,
Thanks for your comments. I guess I will be looking to get a new stator. Found one at bikebandit.com for $114 shipped. That's assuming the 1981 GS550L fits my GS550T model since they don't list mine in the fitment guide for the Electrex part. I guess I need to call and make sure before I order one.

 

[Steve]

I don't remember if you did a continuity test on the stator or not.


With the engine NOT running, use the OHMS setting on the meter, check A to B, then B to C, then C to A. Those should be in the 1 to 2 ohm range. That is why Hap Cal thought your 1.8 reading might be in ohms.

If those are all OK, leave the meter in OHMS, connect one meter lead to a good chassis ground (engine cooling fin is great), then check each of the wires, A, B, and C. Your meter should show "1" (open circuit) in all three tests. Anything less shows there is a short somewhere and current is not going where it should.

If this is, indeed, a problem, you can take your chances with the eBay stator, but I think I would go for the new one. Do they still come with a one-year warranty?


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[Chuckster]

I'll recheck the continuity tests tonight. I reread my manual and it says that if I get a reading of 1, then switch to the next highest Ohm setting. I was on the lowest setting and I do believe I had a reading of 1 on one test. So it may put it higher if I move to the next setting, we'll see.

If it still checks out, I'll redo the rpm test. Gotta get my wife out there to hold the throttle (who is 7 mos pregnant) while I do the test. Then, you got my 4 yr old coming out with her hands on her ears from the noise. Never a dull moment at my house. :-D

For the extra $60, I'm leaning toward a new stator rather than one 26 years old that may or may not work (even if I can get my money back, it'd still be a pain installing, uninstalling, packing, shipping, etc.)

 

[Steve]

Sounds good on the recheck, and enjoy all the "help". \\/

I have used auto-ranging meters for so long that I almost forgot that others exist.

I have the pleasure of keeping a Fluke 77 at home and a Fluke 87 in my traveling tool bag, both of them calibrated annualy, courtesy of work. \\/

As I mentioned before, IF you need a replacement stator, I would probably go for the new one.


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[Chuckster]

Alright Steve,
Reperformed tests tonight and have the following:

Stator Ohm tests using three stator wires:
Yellow to Blue/white: 0.9
Yellow to Green/white: 0.9
Blue/white to Green/white: 0.8

Stator AC Voltage tests @ 5000rpm using three stator wires:
Yellow to Blue/white: 2.3
Yellow to Green/white: 1.8
Blue/white to Green/white: 2.5

An interesting note to these AC voltage readings is that these are the readings that show on the display as soon as I connect the leads to the wires and the reading doesn't hardly change at all as you rev the rpms up to 5000. I know you guys are doubting if I'm doing this right given the readings I'm presenting, but what other way is there to do it than what I'm doing? I'm using the three stator wires coming from the stator and that's all. So I'm not sure what you mean by maybe I'm using a chassis ground or something.

I really do appreciate the comments and advice you as well as the others have given.

-Chuck

 

[Steve]

Sounds like your meter is messed up on the AC Volts setting.

To verify that it does work, stick the leads in an electric socket in your house, see if you get something around 120 volts. If that test is OK, your bike is definitely in need of a stator.

The "using the chassis ground" refers to an incorrect way of measuring the stator output. When you are checking the DC voltage (battery, lights, ignition, etc.) you can connect one of your meter leads to the chassis, which is connected to the negative side of the battery. Since the stator is not grounded (hopefully), if you connect one meter lead to the chassis and the other to one of the stator wires, the reading will be meaningless as there is no connection there, and the voltage will just be "floating". That is why I specified just labeling the leads A, B, and C, then measuring A to B, etc. I was just trying to ensure that you were not using the chassis for your reference point.


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[Chuckster]

Steve,
Good idea on testing the AC voltage of my meter. I'm headed out of town tomorrow for the weekend, but I'll carry it with me and try that on an outlet. Let you know how it goes. Thanks again for your help.

-Chuck

 

[Chuckster]

Just checked my AC Voltage meter in the wall socket and it registers 120 volts. So I don't think anything is wrong with my meter.

 

[Chuckster]

Is it okay to run the black ground from my new Rick's r/r directly to the negative post on the battery? The bolt on the frame where the original black wire was grounded looks like it has some kind of rubber washer on it so how can that be a good ground? I had read about folks using "jumpers" but I didn't know if I had to run it to this original place and then to the battery or if I could just run my black wire directly like I mentioned.

 

[Steve]

Ultimately, that is the best place. It minimizes the number of connections through which current must pass. Each connection adds to the possibility of being a bad connection, so, the fewer the better.


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