Stator & R/R test results and questions

[Toasty]

New Question Post 11:

Stator test summary: 1981 GS550L
- one of the legs had resistance, the other two did not
- when running two of the legs had less then 1 volt (.5~) and one had nothing
- at the battery, it would only produce .5-.8 volts more at 5,000 rpm then it would at idle

R/R test (shindengen #SH532-12)
+ lead on sense wire

• red: OL
• green: .024
• yellow: 1.91, 1.71, 1.76

- lead on sense wire

• red: OL
• green: .024
• yellow: OL, OL, OL

- on red output

• yellow: OL, OL, OL
• green: OL
• black: OL

+ on red output

• yellow: OL, OL, OL
• green: OL
• black: OL

+ on green

• yellow: 1.83, 1.64, 1.69
• red: OL
• black: .024

- on green

• yellow: OL, OL, OL
• red: OL
• black: .024

So the stator is definitely bad, it's barely producing any power. It charged some when I was rode it yesterday with the headlight off, (from 12.4V on freshly charged battery to 12.8V) but with the headlight on it was losing power.

I'm not sure of the R/R though, the readings are confusing (and so is the test walkthrough TBH). The readings don't look good, so I'm probably going to have to replace that too.

Also, with a Honda R/R the power output to the harness is supposed to be fused correct? On my bike the PO has it routed to the stock output wire (which is bundled with a white/green and white/red wire that are disconnected). The R/R ground is also attached to the battery negative and has the sense wire routed to the rear tail light switch.

One last thing, how are the ebay stators that go for $90?

 

[tom203]

"One last thing, how are the ebay stators that go for $90? "

Basscliff is using one as I recall, maybe he will find your post. As to your R/R testing, I'll pass- but duaneage sold lots of these R/R's with no problems. I'll bet the SH-532-12 is fine and just waiting for a functioning stator.

 

[BigD_83]

If you need a new stator, Bike Bandit (post on here today) has them on sale...$103

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

What setting were you using when checking the r/r unit? On the diode setting you should see about .5v in one direction and OL in the other direction, where applicable. Have a look here: Regulator/Rectifier Diode Test. If you're looking at resistance readings (ohms) then the numbers will be different but the diodes will still show OL in only one direction and not the other.

Decent r/r units from eBay are cheap. I'd pick one up for a spare even if I didn't need it right away.

I am currently using a Caltric stator (about $90 from eBay) and it has been there almost a year with no problems. Rick's is still my favorite stator but costs about $140. The Caltric seems to have similar construction. We'll see how long it lasts. Make sure all of the connections and ground in the charging system are clean, clean, clean!

 

[duaneage]

The RR is probably not bad, those RRs are pretty tough. I think your meter doesn't measure diodes or rectifiers properly, some don't work right measuring those sort of things.

 

[Toasty]

I just redid the rectifier test, I had it on the wrong setting . All seems well, it tests fine, one of the yellow inputs is a bit lower (.52 vs .55).

I double checked the stator again to make sure, and in the continuity test between the three leads it shows OL on every combination (dead stator). When testing to the ground, two test fine and the last reads 48ohms .

I set the multimeter up for AC volts and put the testing wires in the correct plugs and I get nada. Even at full load I'm not getting ANY current from the stator. Either I'm still doing something wrong or that sucker is deader then dead.

 

[duaneage]

I think your stator has taken up your GSR name.

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

I'll bet it will look something like this:

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Toasty]

Im taking a break from my stator install since its really hot today. So here's my findings so far...

When I bought the bike the PO told me he recently installed a new stator, and the left crankcase gasket did look new. At the RR the wires from the stator were the stock Suzuki wires, thats odd. I cracked open the stator cover, and took off the starter cover. Whoever decided to jam that 8mm bolt way in the engine must have been high btw.

Look what I find

Hmmmm, whats under this lump of hardened electrical tape?

This...

Which fried that new stator he put in...

 

[duaneage]

Yeah, that's not good at all. Lucky for the bike you bought it and are fixing it proper.

 

[Toasty]

So my stator died again on my way to work. The indicator lights were dimming but was okay on the freeway with the headlight off. When getting off the freeway and using the blinker and tail light it died. I ended up coasting to the side and pushing the last 1/2 mile to work.

Stator results:
Between the legs: OL, 0.9, OL
Ground and legs: OL, 0.3, 0.6

Can't test output at the moment, no juice to run it.



The multimeter at work is different then the one at my house and is giving me weird readings. Either my R/R (shindingen unit) is completely gone or I don't have it set right.
Picture of Multimeter

With it set to 2000 on the ohm section (with the >+ symbol directly underneath) I get:

(+) on sense
- OL like it should

(-) on sense
- red: OL
- green: 1800
- yellow: OL

(-) on red
- yellow: 784, 800, 844
- green: 1851
- sense: OL

(+) on green
- yellow: 794, 842, 841

(-) on green
- yellow: OL

If I run the meter on 200 (buzz) it will quickly flash a number (on the leads where it should have a reading) and then go to OL.

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

Your bike will run at least an hour on battery juice if it's properly charged. But that stator needs to be replaced. You might as well pick up a good used r/r unit and replace them both at the same time, if you haven't replaced the r/r already.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Steve]

R/R test (shindengen #SH532-12)

+ lead on sense wire

• red: OL
• green: .024
• yellow: 1.91, 1.71, 1.76

- lead on sense wire

• red: OL
• green: .024
• yellow: OL, OL, OL

With it set to 2000 on the ohm section (with the >+ symbol directly underneath) I get:

(+) on sense
- OL like it should

(-) on sense
- red: OL
- green: 1800
- yellow: OL

Would you like to save a little bit of time on your next testing go-around? :-k

Don't bother hooking anything up to the sense wire, those tests are meaningless.

.

 

[duaneage]

So my stator died again on my way to work. The indicator lights were dimming but was okay on the freeway with the headlight off. When getting off the freeway and using the blinker and tail light it died. I ended up coasting to the side and pushing the last 1/2 mile to work.

Stator results:
Between the legs: OL, 0.9, OL
Ground and legs: OL, 0.3, 0.6

Can't test output at the moment, no juice to run it.



The multimeter at work is different then the one at my house and is giving me weird readings. Either my R/R (shindingen unit) is completely gone or I don't have it set right.
Picture of Multimeter

With it set to 2000 on the ohm section (with the >+ symbol directly underneath) I get:

(+) on sense
- OL like it should

(-) on sense
- red: OL
- green: 1800
- yellow: OL

(-) on red
- yellow: 784, 800, 844
- green: 1851
- sense: OL

(+) on green
- yellow: 794, 842, 841

(-) on green
- yellow: OL

If I run the meter on 200 (buzz) it will quickly flash a number (on the leads where it should have a reading) and then go to OL.

Numbers look OK to me. Stators live in an oil bath, and that's a hard environment. A bad RR can damage the insulation further accelerating the death of the stator. Even after doing a RR swap the stator can go bad later.

 

[Toasty]

The numbers on the r/r look okay? Do you think I should just get another on to be safe?

This is the stator I got from Caltric, it doesnt have any powdercoat on the copper. Im still under warranty but I dunno if its worth sending it back if its gonna fail again. I might save myself some trouble and just get an electrosport/ricks electric one instead. What do you think?

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

I've had a Caltric stator on my bike for over a year now, looks just like that one. It's doing just fine. The only other stator I'd recommend is a Rick's Electrics stator, about $120-$140 depending on where you buy it.

If you want to put it back together and ride it right now, then go ahead and keep your current r/r unit. They are easy enough to replace if you pick one up later.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Steve]

The numbers on the r/r look okay?

I started to look at them, then got too confused, as there was no apparent order to your tests.

Here are the connections you need to make (with the meter in the diode test, the 2000 with the diode symbol):

Clip the red meter lead to the red R/R wire, touch the black meter lead to each of the yellow wires.
You should see whatever your OL indicator is.

Reverse your connections, clip the black meter lead to the red R/R wire, touch the red meter lead to each of the yellow wires.
You should see a number that will be about .500 to .800 on each of them.

Clip the black meter lead to the black R/R wire, touch the red meter lead to each of the yellow wires.
You should see OL on each one.

Reverse your leads again, clip the black meter lead to the red R/R wire, touch the red meter lead to each of the yellow wires.
You should see about .500 to .800 on each of them.

That is a total of TWELVE meter readings. Should have taken no more than two minutes. Six of them should be OL, the other six should be about .500. If any one of them is not right, your rectifier (the R/ part) is shot. The only way I know to check the regulator (the /R part) is to run the bike and measure the output, but if the rectifier is not right, the regulator can't correct it.

.

 

[Toasty]

Clip the red meter lead to the red R/R wire, touch the black meter lead to each of the yellow wires.
You should see whatever your OL indicator is.
Meter shows OL

Reverse your connections, clip the black meter lead to the red R/R wire, touch the red meter lead to each of the yellow wires.
You should see a number that will be about .500 to .800 on each of them.
The meter shows 793, 808 and 853

Clip the black meter lead to the black R/R wire, touch the red meter lead to each of the yellow wires.
You should see OL on each one.
The meter shows OL

Reverse your leads again, clip the black meter lead to the red R/R wire, touch the red meter lead to each of the yellow wires.
You should see about .500 to .800 on each of them.
The meter shows 792, 852, 807

The test results are in red. I'm gonna be taking the stator out this weekend, I wonder how it will look it's only got maybe a 1,000 miles on it...

 

[Steve]

The test results are in red. I'm gonna be taking the stator out this weekend, I wonder how it will look it's only got maybe a 1,000 miles on it...

OK. As I mentioned earlier, though, that only shows that the R/ is good, you won't know about the /R until you have a known-good stator.

With your findings that you reported in the original post, the stator is definitely shot, so replace that, then check your output again.

.

 

[Normk]

Best to use a test light and 12 volts to test the diodes as a multimeter based ohmmeter or diode test setting may not be reliable. I've tested hundreds of automotive rectifier diodes doing alternator repairs and have wasted enough time by trusting meters. One practical problem is that a diode tester will not indicate the current carrying ability of the diodes. A partially burned diode can test as good with a meter but a load will reveal the deficiency.

As for testing the regulator, the easiest way to test is as Steve suggested, by connecting to a known good stator. I test them here in the same manner as for a controlled field alternator regulator (standard "automotive" type alternator) by applying a controllable voltage to the "sense" stage and noting the regulator's reaction as the voltage is varied.

In the case of an integral VRR, simply apply the voltage between two stator connections with the meter across the VRR output. Raise the voltage until the regulator reaches its set point which will be the maximum voltage which will be shown by the meter. It is straight forward indication of the working set point of the regulator in question at the ambient temperature which is usually all which one needs to know. The temperature can be increased and the regulator's reaction noted if one wishes to determine the correction implemented by the regulator but that usually isn't a concern.

When using a battery to test a constant field alternator such as typical for motorcycles, one needs to know how the regulator controls output or the maximum current from the testing battery must be limited. I prefer to use the high output filament from a1034/1157/2357 bulb in series with the test battery to limit current in case the regulator operates by either grounding or shorting between stator legs. It seems simpler and safer to do this regardless of the regulator as a mistake will cook the regulator and hooking a bulb into the circuit is simple.

Don't know if this is applicable to your testing but just in case....

Likely someone has described the operation of the two sections of one of these VRR units for use in controlling a permanent magnet field alternator and will post a link. IMO & IME it is always best to understand the basic operation of a system when testing as the "Place lead A to position 1...." leaves too many potential problem areas.

Very basically, the rectifier stage combines the AC (alternating current) from the alternator stator into DC (direct current) which is to be used by the bike's electrics. This stage depends on the operation of the one, two, four, six or eight diodes forming the rectifier, depending on the system in question. Each stator lead connects to two diodes so a three lead stator generally uses six diodes. These can be tested by disconnecting the VRR.

The second stage is the voltage regulator stage which limits the maximum output voltage. Note that it does not increase voltage but simply prevents if from going too high. It does this by interfering with the output of DC current by various strategies.

Either rectifier or regulator section can malfunction and needs be considered separately according to its characteristics.

There is much good stuff written on these systems if one cares to read up but not much subsitute for working at diagnostics and repair of working charging systems.