Stupid question alert !!!

[exdirtbiker]

My 79 GS1000L has a really bad noise from the bottom end, and tons of copper debris in the oil.
the motor is coming out tomorrow, all I have left is the motor mounts.

So here's the stupid part...

Is it possible to take the bottom of the motor apart without removing the top end? I just need to look at the crank, confirm that the problem is the crank, and get another "in the mail". and a gasket set.

Can you pull the pistons out from underneath, or am I dreaming?


I'm pretty sure the answer is NO, but I really want to get something done, it's been raining for 11 days.

 

[Guest]

Have you checked your stator. it might be the cause and would leave copper debris in your oil.

 

[Steve]

The answers to your questions are "yes" and "no".

Yes, you should be able to turn the engine over and remove the bottom cover, but there are a few bolts that you need to access from the top before you turn it over.

No, you can not remove the pistons from the bottom.

.

 

[nufnuf]

yes. I once had a clutch plate disintegrate in my gs1000. A friend advised me not to pull the whole engine down as I was time challenged, just to pop the bottom case off and fish the broken bits out. I replaced some clutch bits did a couple of quick oil changes and the engine continued its life.
There were a few tricky bits to look out for (it was a long time ago and we had no engine manual) but I would be suprised if this procedure wasnt covered in the manual.
Ps....The motor was a gs1000s chain drive

 

[exdirtbiker]

The answers to your questions are "yes" and "no".

Yes, you should be able to turn the engine over and remove the bottom cover, but there are a few bolts that you need to access from the top before you turn it over.

No, you can not remove the pistons from the bottom.

.

which bolts do I need to get from the top ???

So I was right ????
.. I can get the bottom cover off to look for a blown bearing on the crank, but still have to take off the head and cyl. before I can remove crank?

I took the flywheel off, praying it was the starter clutch washer. It's not.
that copper washer looks -new-.
And... all 3 bolts that hold the clutch to the flywheel were very loose !

Edit: I should probably inspect the cyls, head, cams etc. before getting spendy on the bottom end, eh ? :-\\\

 

[Steve]

Edit: I should probably inspect the cyls, head, cams etc. before getting spendy on the bottom end, eh ? :-\\\

How many miles on the engine? Might not need to do too much, if anything, to the top end.

.

 

[waterman]

Pardon me if I am going off thread here, but why can't you disassemble lower end with top end intact? Is this because it is roller bearing crank?
I have a plain bearing 650 that I had performed a top end rebuild trying to chase down oil leaks and came to realize that the previous owner had left gas in the crankcase long enough to soften the seals between the cases. Since I had recently completed the top end, I left it intact and simple split the cases. A quick clean up of the surfaces and resealed and back together in a day.

It actually was kind of nice working on the cases since I didn't have to worry about the head studs gouging into bench and becoming messed up.

If you do need to check out the topend components than by all means tear it down first.

You may consider pulling oil pan to get a view of your crank. Good luck and by no means a stupid question. Ask away.

 

[exdirtbiker]

Pictures !

Pictures !

There is 4 miles on the oil...

So how do I get these Phillips screws out?

I put a 'driver bit' in a 1/4" socket... tapped the bit with a hammer to knock them loose. N/G.
I can't get them to budge. I'll strip 'em if I try any more.
ANy suggestions?

And...
My top end is 'fine'. Would be nice to leave it together.
Can I really get the crank out from underneath?
doesn't the cam chain prevent that idea ???

( I have 2 posts about this bike, and they are starting to overlap... I'll kill the other one now. )

 

[Dave8338]

WOW...4 miles and you have that!
I think if you pull the cam chain tensioner there will be enough slack to slip the chain off the crank sprocket and then past each journal, though I have not tried it on a GS. Just a thought. :-s

 

[first timer]

if you going through all this trouble you are going to want to just pull it all apart. Plus you are going to have a hell of a time tring to get the pistons (have to compress the rings and you will not have any room too) back in the jugs with the top end still in place. Just pull the whole thing apart, it will give you a opportunity to really clean everything up too.

To remove those screws you need a impact screw driver with the right bit, should be the fatter tipped one. Use a 3lb mallat to help get them loose. craftman makes a nice impact driver and it is reasonably priced.

Just a heads up if your crank is toast it is going to cost at least 800 bucks to do the bearings, might be cheaper looking for a used crank.

 

[exdirtbiker]

OK, I bought a "impact driver" from the auto parts store.. best $24 I ever spent.
The phillips screws popped nicely.
I thought about it, and yes, the top end should come off first.

I took the head off, the cams look brand new.
the shims looks new.
The cyl. came off without too much fight. or stupidity.
The bores look new.
Pistons have "0.5" stamped in top of each one.
Doesn't that indicate an overbore of 0.5mm... done by a previous owner?
they have "suzuki" cast in the under side of the skirt.

I ran out of time... I'll pull the pistons tomorrow,and hopefully the crank also. I can't feel anything wrong with any bearings anywhere... yet.
The rods feel fine.
It must be a main bearing, or I'm waisting a lot of my time.....

 

[exdirtbiker]

He's baaaaaaack

He's baaaaaaack

OK, check the dates.
"Holy time warp, Batman !"

As stated in my last post, I'm now just hoping it was a waste of time.
the rods feel perfect. I can't/won't go into the bottom end.
It's been apart on the bench (as seen above) for 8 months! YIKES !
It's going back together (without that clutch), and I'm starting over.

I have downloaded the Suzuki manual... but was thinking the haynes or clymer might have better step-by-step? any thoughts?

Thanks again for the help !

 

[Tarbash 27]

I am 99.9% sure you dont have anything wrong with your rods or main bearings. The motor would probably not spin if you had something wrong or you would hear a very loud noise when running. The rods are one piece and do not come off the crank unles the crank is pressed apart. The bearings are probably one of the last things to go bad on these motors.

Have you take off the left side stator cover? Thats where most of the copper is, the stator.

 

[exdirtbiker]

the screws were actually loose, but there was barely any wear on the copper washer behind it. I'll take a pic tomorrow.
I'm really hoping it was all "clutch fiber junk".
and someone else said these bike will have horrible clutch chatter if you let it go long enough......
at least that's what I'm hoping for.
I got a gasket kit, and it's ging back together. if it really does have a "bad motor", I'm selling it parts/whole. the rest of the bike is not worth any more effort. ( "humble" chrome, spray can paint job, etc. )
The good part ??? my 16 yr old son is really in to it ! :dancing:
he's killing me for neglecting it all this time.

 

[Tarbash 27]

The clutch chatter comes from the gear becoming loose on the clutch basket, the dampening springs get soft and loose. So this really wouldnt have any effect on the discs.

How was it running before you took it apart? Maybe the knocking was something else?

Make sure you clean all of the old gaskets off real good before putting the new ones on.

 

[exdirtbiker]

..." Make sure you clean all of the old gaskets off real good before putting the new ones on."...

I have found that Permatex Gasket remover ( in a spray can ! ) is actually worth every penny.
just don't let it overspray the paint !

the clutch.... It's pretty obvious I'm hoping for a miracle.
I'll know soon enough.
any thoughts on clymer/haynes vs. factory manual?
the factory manual doesn't really have step by step instructions.
They asssume alot.
Let me say I'm not "clueless"...( I've done car head gaskets, rebuilt (2) XL600R, owned many corvettes/mustangs)
The problem is, it's been so long since I took this bike apart, I really feel "lost" when I look at it.
ziploc bags with bolts laying all over..... I really "shot myself in the foot" with this one.
SO..... is the clymer book any better?

 

[exdirtbiker]

could this be my problem? ( make sure your speakers are turned up )

( click on the movie to watch it )

 

[Spyderman]

could this be my problem? ( make sure your speakers are turned up )

( click on the movie to watch it )

yup there's your problem and it's a common one you can get rebuild kits for them and then get it put in or send it to APE i believe they do the rebuilds
i still don't know what or where that nasty crap that was in your oil came from but i would investigate everything before putting it back together or it could be all for nothing if your don't find that problem

 

[exdirtbiker]

OK, let me first say "thanks" to all of you that have helped me so far....

and then I'll hit the "reset button".

the crap in the oil is aluminum, not copper.
the oil gave it a red-ish tint, but after letting it sit for another week, I realized it's not copper.
so what in the motor could make that much aluminum flakes?...
every time I make a "good" diagnosis, something else goes wrong!

here's what i know... ( not much ! )
the clutch basket is shot. { the noise}
the starter clutch bolts were loose, but not eating any copper at all. one had rub marks, but from rubbing against steel, not copper.
the rods all feel the same... great. new carb cleaning, tires, battery. replaced rear disc + caliper.
the pistons look new. the cyls look new. the cams are new.
the tank has a rattle can paint job. all the chrome is shot. the side covers are bolted down, crudely. the seat has rips.
should I continue, or just throw in the towel?
and fleabay the parts?
I'm in for about $800 so far.... pulling the motor apart even further is realy not what I want to be doing this winter. and I have little money for it.
I'm loosing interest fast. And learning as I go, which always seems to cost more.
I can buy a " minty fresh" 79 GS 1000 for $1200. should I really continue with this?
I think I already answered most of my questions, but I would like to know how you guys feel about it.
{ and feel free to make an offer. }