Suspension & Handling Concerns

[Tom MLC]

Okay, it's brain pickin' time. I have a somewhat serious problem with my '80 GS1100E suspension. It came on slowly, but is getting worse fast. The conditions I'm going to describe are similar in nature to what BonanzaDave described, so I hope he will chime in with his been-there-done-that wisdom.

First symptom. At any speed, when I hit a crack in the road surface that parallels my direction of travel, I get a serious wobble. I have never noticed this in all my years of riding. I rode both my 1000's and noticed only a perception of this condition. I would'nt notice it at all, except it's SO APPARENT on the big bike. I say it happens at all speeds, but you can imagine at 65+ MPH, it can be quite scary.

What I did. Checked the tires for wear. Checked the front wheel balance by spinning the wheel on the axle. Front was balanced, but I noticed a severe runout in the TIRE. There was a clear dimple in the left side of the front tire as it went around. AHA! This has gotta be the problem. Time to change the tires. Front was a Chen Shin rear was a Maxxis, both with 6000 miles. By the way, the rear tire was looking flat in the middle from too many commute miles. Replaced the tires with a set of Dunlop's. A 491 on the back and an Elite III on the front. Mounted and balanced at a local shop.

While the wheels were off I checked the bearings and axles. All were fine. I also checked the front end for play as described in my CLYMER's. There was a barely noticable play when I pulled on the forks. Also my steering head seemed extremely loose, as I could touch the front end and it would fall over to the right or left. So I tighted up the steering head a quarter turn. Put everything back together.

Symptom 1 still exists.

Second symptom. The bike pulls to the left, then right at slow speeds, like starting from a traffic light. I have described it like a top which doesn't spin exactly in one spot, but precesses in an eliptical pattern. This goes away at higher speeds, but comes back as I slow to a stop.

Symptom three is scary. This started before I changed the tires, andis getting worse fast. The bike is very unstable in turns. When I lean into a right turn, she feels like she's trying to dive deeper. When I lean into a left turn, she tries to stand me back up. As of now, and until I fix this, I consider my bike not road worthy.

What I did. I decided to start looking deeper at the front forks. Some of you will chastise me for not doing this when I bought the bike. But with only 13,000 miles, I figured I was okay. Today I removed the front forks, and found the following conditions. The left fork had 200CC's of very dirty, gritty oil. Far less that the 238 CC's called for in the book. The right fork had even less. Only 180 CC's. There is evidence of a leak at the top of the right fork. The PO put some silicone sealer on the fork head assembly. Both fork springs are 21 inches long, no spacers. Book says 20.4 inches. Close enough?

I am about to order seals, springs and o-rings for the forks. While the bike is "down" I'm gonna remove the swing arm and check the bushings/bearings. At this point I am open to suggestions from the GS Guru's.

My questions. Do you think the dirty oil, and the un-even amount of oil is significant to the symptoms?

Progressive fork springs are available, but they describe the need for a spacer? What's up with that? On the E model, the assembly at the top of the fork is adjustable. Does that preclude the need for a spacer? (By the way, both fork head nuts were set to the lowest setting).

I am considering dis-assembling the steering head, as this looks like a good time to do it. Bearings and races are available. Should I just go ahead and replace them while I have the chance?

Are there any missing pieces to the puzzle? What other things should I check or do at this point?

Okay folks, the floor is open.

 

[Guest]

Is there any back and forth play in the swingarm? The Progressive springs come with pc pipe (spacer)that you can cut and set the dampening to your liking. It is quite simple. Just make sure to cut the pc as even as you can or you'll never get your fork caps to thread. The wobble to me sounds like a bad steering stem bearing. Go with the Progressive! It's a great upgrade.

 

[MekaniX]

symptome # 2 and 3

my guess is that you 're steering column is too right, I've noticed that when the nut is tightened too much, the bike will pull and i correct and then it pulls the other way. Sort of binding ever so slightly. makes for a scary ride .

 

[Tom MLC]

Good tips so far, thanks.

I checked the swing arm play while the rear tire was off, and there was none. But the shocks were still installed. I'll check it again with the shocks off.

I thought that maybe the steering head may be too tight, but it still moves easily side to side. Maybe too easily.

 

[Guest]

Hmm, it really sounds like wheel bearings... Especially the rear wheel.. You mentioned that you checked them over, but it wouldn't hurt to replace them if you haven't ever. They're about $20 for peace of mind and safety

 

[Tom MLC]

Hmm, it really sounds like wheel bearings... Especially the rear wheel.. You mentioned that you checked them over, but it wouldn't hurt to replace them if you haven't ever. They're about $20 for peace of mind and safety

Good point. They're sealed bearings, so all I could do was see if they spin freely with no excessive play. There was none, but that's off the axle. Can't say how they're doing under load. Might as well replace 'em while the wheels are off.

 

[Clone]

Check the allignment of the front and rear tire, if the rear wheel points off to one side it could pull and push depending on the direction of turn. The rear swing arm bearings could cause a wobble, replace them they are cheap. How are the slider bushings? Bearings are cheap, if in doubt even a little replace the front wheel and rear wheel bearings.

 

[Jethro]

Check the allignment of the front and rear tire.

Ditto, big time. My bike was a death trap before I got that cleaned up. Don't trust the hash marks on the swingarm, google directions for the string alignment method.

Also, on my 1100, overhauling the fork oil was huge. Get the Progressive springs, and use the spacer (even with the preload adjusters) to set the stationary sag properly.

Last, but not even close to least (in fact this is "A" numero uno) if you still have the original rear shocks, put them in the dumpster. I don't care how good they look or seem to feel, do yourself the sweet justice of upgradinging these collosal pieces of garbage to anything else. I got a pair of bargin shocks off Ebay for $80 and the difference is huge. I could kill myself for not doing it sooner- ffs I almost did many times on the bike. This makes more difference with the handleing of the front end than you can imagine, especially with the wobbles when you hit a bump at speed.

 

[Tom MLC]

Thanks Clone & Jethro. I didn't mention it, but I did the string alignment check and it was okay. What are slider bushings? Yes, wheel bearings and steering head bearings & races are gonna be replaced while she's torn down. I replaced my old rusty shocks last year with a set of new Progressive shocks and springs.

So far we all seem to be on the same page with ideas. I appreciate it greatly. I'm hoping someone will have the magic fix that I've missed. I have a new angle to toss out there. What significance to the symptoms would my windshield have? It seems to be aligned evenly. Could it be acting like a spoiler?

 

[rustybronco]

When you have it apart for the head bearings, check the tripple tree for straightness and the inner fork tubes for straightness i use a table saw top and a square for the tripple tree (it should be flat on the table any twist will be evident then check the long tube with the square) roll the tubes on the table to check for straightness or sight down one tube and find the straightest one and roll the other tube against it.

 

[flyingace]

Remove the windshield and ride it - best way to find out. I think this thread has covered just about every other possible cause of wobble.

 

[fgh]

On both my bikes inside the front forks there are solid metal bearings (look like a flat ring that has a cut in it). They are inside the slider (piece that goes on bottom of fork tube and bolts to axle) and on the bottom of the fork tube. I've never changed mine, but I don't have wobble problems. They probably aren't much so it might be worth it to replace them.

 

[Tom MLC]

When I get things all put back together, if I still have a problem I'll take the windshield off. Wouldn't that be a kick in the head, if that's all it was!#-o

 

[bonanzadave]

I'm going 99% steering head bearings and adjustment. Yours are too tight and maybe shot. Replacement bearings are on my list for this winter. I dont know the proper proceedure for adjustment so I loosened the big stem bolt and cranked down the spanner nut. Wish I had that wrench. I used the cave man punch and hammer. Waaay tooooo tight. It really did feel like a gyro top. Its exactly as you describe. Made several test rides and and backed the spanner nut off about an 1/8" each time until It felt comfortable at 1mph and 100mph. I can ride figure 8s in four parking spaces and still qualify for a really bad speeding ticket so I think Im about right. Its never gonna be like riding a new bike and all the other suggestions are well worth it If you can justify the $$$. BTW, my chain adjuster hash marks are dead on and I have 33k miles on orig shocks and springs. Also soft eclipse side bags that you would think would really screw things up....but they dont now. Good luck, Dave

 

[Guest]

I think some of your problem has to be with the fork oil/pressure being different in your fork tubes. I'll bet alot of your steering problems go away once you fix the fork seals and do the springs and fresh oil. Every bit of info I have ever read emphasizes the need of equal oil level and pressure in the forks.

 

[Tom MLC]

The only drawback to doing all these things at once is, I won't know what fixed the problem!

 

[rustybronco]

If its bearings you will see it, if its bent parts you will see it, you know about the oil levels being different, if its worn parts you will see/feel it.

 

[ericox]

I think all that bird crap from santa cruz is causing your bike to be inbalanced :-D

Seriously though, my guess is either bearings or issues with your fork tubes. Wish i could help ya out but im booked all through this weekend. Gotta get my to do list cought up before my fall classes take up all my time.

Good luck

Eric

 

[Tom MLC]

I think all that bird crap from santa cruz is causing your bike to be inbalanced

One of life's embarrasing moments. Thanks Eric, I thought you promised not to tell. Next time I guess I should pay you to keep the promise.:-$

Seriously, as an update. I decided to split up all my fixes to see if I can determine what the problem was. When I get my parts, I'll replace the fork springs and steering head bearings. I did order new wheel bearings for the front and back, but I'll hold off on those. I agree with the concensus about fork springs and clean, even level fork oil. I'll keep you all posted.

 

[first timer]

don't forget swing arm bearings, i have seen many a swings arm bearing pour out of a swing arm in small rusty lumps, which i would assume would cause bad handeling...

-ryan