Suspension Question (yes I searched)

[Truth]

Hello all. I don't post here often as the search function, and the welcome page I got answered pretty much every question I had. I do have one I can't seem to answer however.

I am a brand new rider, having just passed my MSF course this past Friday. All of my riding has been just around town, and I started in empty parking lots. I'm having trouble getting up to speed because of how soft the suspension is. On some roads it feels like I'm on a galloping horse. It's bottomed out a few times, and my rear has bounced off the seat a few times. On some roads I've had to go extremely slow and ride standing up like a dirt bike.

Up around 50 mph it gets really bouncy and feels a little squirlly which gets me slowing back down.

I'm not sure what the tire pressure spec is, but I keep 32 in the front and 34 in the back. And the tires are fairly new. (lots of tread, no cracks)

I know for the rear it's just a matter of a call to Dennis Kirk for some shocks, but the budget is tight. I think anything will be better than what I think are the originals.

What I'm really unsure of is how the front forks work. I've read somewhere that they're air, but I don't see how to add air anywhere, so I'm guessing that they're oil? I'm not looking to mod anything, I just want it to perform the correct way. Is there a writeup or article somewhere on the front forks on a 1982 GS650G? I don't see any oil on the forks, so I don't think I have a leak...Unless they're already empty that is.

Thanks in advance guys. This site has already saved me a few times.

 

[crazypaint]

do the wheels have any wheel weights on it. i lost some of mine and it got scarry around 50 so i took them off and had them ballanced again. as for shocks just post a add in the wanted section u can get some (i think) good deals on here cuz everyone seams to like to help out.

 

[koolaid_kid]

Unfortunately, you need a suspension upgrade. The ones you have are almost 30 years old and are done for.
Progressive makes springs for the front, they are a must. You can flush them and change fluid at the same time.
Many use Progressive shocks and springs for the rear, but there is a cheaper alternative around that someone will tell you about.
BassCliff's excellent site has a Service Manual for your bike, I suggest you download it and read it cover to cover.
Best of luck.

 

[Nessism]

Your forks should have air valves on the top, most likely under a chrome cap. You can put 15 psi or so in there to firm up the fork action. For the rear, check the spring ramps in the back and move them to a firmer setting. I'm not sure if the 650 had damping adjustment in the back but you might want to move them up as well if they are adjustable.

If the shocks are just plain junk, partsnmore.com sell some cheap shocks that have received good reviews as long as you are 200 lbs or more since the springs are stiff. Also, the shock eyelets are not very good but you can install some aftermarket bushings in them when the time comes.

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

From your "mega-welcome":

**********Quoted from Mr. Griffin**********
For suspension upgrades, the front end is pretty simple: Progressive brand springs and fresh 15W fork oil. (http://www.mawonline.com has pretty good prices on Progressive products.)

(If you need extra heavy spring rate for your forks (for bigger riders or heavy loads) try Sonic Fork Springs. There's an online tool for calculating the proper spring rate according to your bike, weight, riding style, etc.) The rear end isn't so simple.
Most of these brands are available in 'eye to eye' and 'eye to clevis' configurations, in different lengths for twin shock GS models. The options are arranged in order of price, low to high.

1. $65-$90 Emgo/MDI: Found all over ebay, and at about every vendor on the internet. General consensus of users seems to be that they are ok quality, but very stiffly sprung. Essentially the bare minimum option from stock. (For example, see: http://www.crc2onlinecatalog.com/rear_shocks.htm)
2. $120 Redwing: Evidently no longer made, they are still available at www.loudfastugly.com (and omarsdtr.com). I've not been able to find anyone who's actually used them, but they appear to be of halfway decent quality.

3. $210-$230 Progressive 12 Series: Lots of information here and all over the web about them. Most people seem happy with them, several different spring weights available. Available at most online retailers. www.denniskirk.com is a vendor I have had great luck with over the years.

4. $218-$270 Hagon Type A: Seem very similar to Progressive 12 series as far as owner satisfaction, quality of construction, and price. Available in the USA at www.davequinnmotorcycles.com

5. $320-$400+ Ikon 76 Series: Generally pretty highly regarded, lots of options available. From what I've read on the internet, they do seem to be more highly regarded than Progressive. Can be found at http://www.ikonsuspensionusa.com/servlet/StoreFront

6. $419-$589 Works Performance Steel Tracker: Very highly regarded, lots of positive reviews around the internet of Works Performance in general. Customer service (including rebuilding any brand of shock) is very highly rated. More info at http://www.worksperformance.com/html/home.html

There are other options available that can be more expensive, including offerings from Works, Ikon, Ohlins. White Brothers, once a powerhouse in the motorcycle industry, has ceased operations.
**********End Quote**********


I currently have 15w oil in my forks with Progressive springs. When I replace my fork seals I'm going back to 10w because the ride is a little too harsh for me. All of the major online retail vendors carry Progressive springs. See the Progressive Suspension website and use their chart to find the model number for your bike.

The MDI/EMGO shocks are widely available too. They are a bit stiff but on my heavy bike, and me being 200 lbs, they work just fine. I think I got mine from Cycle Recycle II but Parts-n-More might have a little better price.

If your fork seals have been leaking you may have uneven oil levels. They should be the same in both forks. While your at it, you'll also want to check the steering head bearings. To be sure, check the date code on your tires. Bad tires can lead to all kinds of problems.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Truth]

Brain fart on my end. The cap for the air valve on my front forks looked like a bolt. I was going to to start taking the forks off when I realized what it was. Checked it, and had no air in there at all. Aired it up to 25, and the fork shot right out. Rode it around for a bit and was much better.

Checked it again when I got back home and was down to 15 psi. Have a leak somewhere, and after spraying it with soapy water still can't find it. I see the air hose that runs from side to side...is this a common spot for a leak? I plan on rebuilding the forks when I get some cash with new springs, oil and seals, but I need to get this air leak taken care of first.

 

[koolaid_kid]

While it is possible the air line is leaking, the most likely suspect is the fork seals. Which requires a full rebuild, including removing them from the triples.
A true PITA, unfortunately.
Stiction (the forks failing to rebound on their own until air is added) is also a bad sign, and again points to the seals.
You could rebuild them with the old springs and add spacers for a short term repair, then add Progressive springs later. Not the optimal choice, but a possible short term patch.

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

For your perusal:

Fork Seal Replacement
(by Mr. Matchless)

Install Progressive Fork Springs


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[twr1776]

Yesterday 11:06 PM Checked it again when I got back home and was down to 15 psi. Have a leak somewhere, and after spraying it with soapy water still can't find it. I see the air hose that runs from side to side...is this a common spot for a leak? I plan on rebuilding the forks when I get some cash with new springs, oil and seals, but I need to get this air leak taken care of first.

Truth, I test rode a bike with shot springs Saturday and it is just plain dangerious IMHO. I was on a typical country road and the front end was like a pogo stick. The guy selling the bike asked me why I only went down the road a mile or so before turning around. I did not want to tell him the truth because the truth is I about crapped myself because of how dangerous it is to run this way.

I am not trying to be mean but for the $80 you spend on Progressives and $30 on seals and fluid it is a bargain. How much money could it cost if you go down because the springs are bouncy and you have to make an emergency stop or swerve to avoid something and lose traction on the front tire and go down? If you need a hand there are many of us (myself included) in the Chicago area that would be willing to give you a hand.

 

[Truth]

Great info guys thank you. I didn't realize the fork seals could leak air. Once I take this thing apart I'll have a much better idea how these work.

twr... Actually I thought it rode much better once I added air. Didnt make me crap my pants at all. Rode up to 50 mph and it it felt fairly smooth. However, my lack of riding experience leaves me little to compare it to. I'm ordering parts as soon as I get the cash, and I never turn down an offer of help.

 

[Billy Ricks]

If money's tight and you just want to ride you can run the fork with no air by making some spacers to fit over the springs in the forks. Read up on setting up sag then use some PVC tubing that fits nicely in the tubes, 3/4" or 1" most likely. Try different lengths until you get the sag where you want it. I'd shoot for about an 1 1/2" to start with and see how you like it.

 

[Truth]

Thanks for the budget tip. But if I take this thing apart I only want to do it once. I can ride it as is now, it's just a bit uncomfortable and I can't get up to higher speeds. In about a week or so I should have progressive springs and new seals on the way. Is there anything else in there I should look at replacing?

 

[IanC]

You'll need fork oil too. 15w is about middle of the road for performance/comfort I think.

 

[gs road racer]

Great setup but long read

http://www.bikesetup.com/