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synch then tune?

  • Thread starter Thread starter 82Shafty
  • Start date Start date
Your previous posts are all about synching and how to adjust the mixture screws. Your first post only describes a problem of the bike stumbling slightly at 2-4K rpm's. You mention no other symptoms.
Now it appears you think you have an intake leak. An intake leak has a very classic symptom; the rpm's rise significantly as the motor fully warms up.
If this is your scenario...hard to start, takes a long time to warm up. As it's warming up, the idle (if set to factory spec) is around 900 to 1,100 rpm's. As soon as the motor warms up completely the rpm's are much higher. So high that you decide (depends on the rider I suppose) to lower the idle to factory spec by backing off the idle adjuster knob. The bike idles fine now but after you turn it off and it cools completely, you find that the bike will only start again if you turn up the idle adjuster knob again or give it some throttle. Even with throttle (which by-passes the choke circuit) starting is difficult. This cycle continues every time the bike goes from cold to hot.
That's the classic intake leak symptom. Spraying water mist (lowers the rpm's) to expose the leak doesn't always work. Spraying something flammable will cause the rpm's to increase but is bad for rubber parts and is messier and more dangerous to use than water mist and will also not always expose the leak. If you have this symptom, I guarantee you have a leak and the manifold o-rings (if used on your model) or the manifolds themselves are failing. If your rpm's do not rise as I said above, it's doubtful you have an intake leak...at least an intake leak like I've ever seen. Any air leaking into the fuel stream between carb and cylinder WILL result in a very lean mixture and irratic combustion that results in the rpm's increasing "on their own". The only time an intake leak won't have this symptom is if the leak is so large that the bike simply stops running or won't start at all.
You can of course make sure the carbs are "popped' into their manifolds correctly and try tightening the clamps better before checking the manifolds/o-rings. The clamps must be the factory style too. No general purpose hose clamps should be used because they don't clamp and apply pressure to the exact area needed to seal correctly. If you have o-rings, replace them all, coat them with some hi-temp bearing grease and torque to about 6 ft/lb unless your manual states otherwise. I always replace the stock Phillips manifold screws with Allens so I can torque them and the Allens make future maintenance easier too. Removing the manifold bolts can be difficult sometimes so use a GOOD fitting bit to avoid stripping the heads off.
 
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she will idle baby smooth and runs like an ape once you are riding for 15 mins. I can even fatten the old girl up at idle but when you first fire this thing up it is poppin and spitting and sounds like its firing on two cylinders. This is at 80 degrees.

I will check it again tonight and I have been around many vacuum leaks with hunting idles and such, but again, that was with cars and even a few two-strokes with the crank seals being junk.

http://www.cycleorings.com/intake.html

the carbs are pushed in correctly an it still utilizes the factory clamps that grip the boots nice an tight.

When I get this thing dialed in the way I want it to be I will be sure to put together a list of trials and tribs to aid someone else in their quest to restore factory performance.
 
ok so I got a chance to do some tinkering tonight. I spray'd (dribbled) carb cleaner on the number one cyl boot cyl head side and it made a good diff in idle quality as I had expected, but as the bike reached operating temp, the spray no longer made a difference.

Idles at 900 all day, does not rise up after being warmed up, I synch'd all gauges on one carb, re-synch'd, then tuned for max rpm and fattened 1/8 turn out.

Bike revs great, idles like a kitten, go to take it for a ride in the street and it still breaks up under 3G WTF? Anything over that and it pulls hard with NO breaking up. Perhaps the transitional orifice is clogged. I spray'd all holes that I could find and blew 120 psi compressed air through the disassmbled carbs, but anything is possible.

My pop is ordering the 4 o-rings for it and I told him worse case scenario I will dip all the carbs during winter and start from scratch. I also will have him order a valve cover gasket so I can perform a clearance check. 9700 miles on it I suppose it wouldn't hurt.

I just find it hard to think the valves would be out of spec with 9700 miles only because before the bike sat, it didn't have this problem whatsoever.
 
All the adjusting in the world is for naught with a vacuum leak. Luckily the rings are still available and are very cheap. As to the vavles being in spec or not I prefer to measure things and see for sure rather than assume they are correct. If the 600 mile checkup was never done they might be farther out than you think.

Remember, the difference between a great mechanic and a good one is in the attention to details. That a proper set of wrenches.

I used 10 mm bolts on my intake boots, I like the way they looked and are stainless (pretty!) steel. I also replaced most of the philips head screws with allen head bolts. torque them to 6 foot/lbs, no more.
You seem like a detail oriented guy so get a real good torque wrench that reads 0-240 inch/lbs for working on the bike. I torque everything with the calibrated wrench, prevents repairing things.
 
I am a big believer in the fine details. Of course me trying to cheat with just a quick carb cleaning just so my pop could get some riding time in, as expected, is haunting me.

Every fastner has a torque specification and thank you for the heads up on the 6 ft lbs.

I figured it was worth the gamble. Sometimes ya win, sometimes ya lose. :-|

I should have known better because I am a terrible gambler.
 
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I've tuned and re-jetted a lot of these old bikes over the years. I don't try to get too scientific about it. Hurts the head.
I believe in checking/adjusting all the basics first, such as compression, valve clearances, ignition timing/spark quality, clean parts throughout...only after I KNOW the bike is ready for carb work do I tune/re-jet the carbs. This may seem like more work to some but it saves time and frustration down the road.
I then bench synch as best I can, start the bike, warm up completely and set the mixture or separate air/fuel screws for best idle using 1,000 rpm's (or factory recommended idle rpm) as a base idle, vacuum synch at approx' 3,000 rpm's, double check the vacuum synch, then double check the mixture or air/fuel screw adjustments and fine tune if necessary. Works for me.
Yep! What Keith said!!!
 
I like that shop-vac plan. As I was reading this post, that idea poped into my head and as I read further along, there it was. .....COOL!!
 
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